Just pulled the wheels off of the 72 in my shop. My jaw dropped when I saw the size of the pads. WOW !!!!!!!!!! Small.
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... yes a 20 minute session on track day and those baby's are smokin ...
Ron
Ron
I don't own it. But if I did (after seeing those) I wouldn't. :-)
So, anyway, I have the reproduction shop manual. ICK. How does one remove the rear rotor?
takes a bit of doing. but not too bad.
there's a good how to on
panteraplace.com
there's a good how to on
panteraplace.com
If I am seeing this correctly, the rear suspension needs to come apart to replace the rotor?
Yes, the stub axle needs to be pressed out to change it.
The best alternative is to consider going over the hub with a race hat and building the rear brakes with that in mind, particularly if you feel the need to remove the rotor alot like on a race car.
It all depends on what you want out of your brakes.
On a street Pantera, what you have is all you need.
Talk to ZR1 Chris, at www.saccrestorations.net, who is on here. He has put together some nice package alternatives for brakes depending on how much you want to budget to them.
The best alternative is to consider going over the hub with a race hat and building the rear brakes with that in mind, particularly if you feel the need to remove the rotor alot like on a race car.
It all depends on what you want out of your brakes.
On a street Pantera, what you have is all you need.
Talk to ZR1 Chris, at www.saccrestorations.net, who is on here. He has put together some nice package alternatives for brakes depending on how much you want to budget to them.
Are you replacing the rotor because it's bad, or are you upgrading to aftermarket rotors ?
If the stock rotor just needs to be turned, you can have it turned on the car without having to remove it (the rotor).
John
If the stock rotor just needs to be turned, you can have it turned on the car without having to remove it (the rotor).
John
Rear rotors are in decent shape. Just sort of ugly after sitting since 1990. A little bit of sanding can get the job done rather than getting crazy. It will be used as an occasional road trip car. For now, have pulled the left rear caliper and seeing about whether to rebuild the calipers or replace them. So far seem in decent shape. Just need to disassemble for inspection.
I'd recommend that you look at going with an aftermarket rear rotor with a hat that sits over the hub. Cars that are going to sit often will pit the cast iron rotors and grow crusty rust that will kill the pads when you try to use them to clean it up.
The removable rotor, even for your application, is a really good serious consideration. Ditto on the front rotors as well.
They are just going to make like simpler for you.
The removable rotor, even for your application, is a really good serious consideration. Ditto on the front rotors as well.
They are just going to make like simpler for you.
Doug, you mentioned in a different thread that 67 Tbird rotors were used by some of the upgrade factory race cars? I believe you said they were 12" vented rotors front and rear that fit the stock spindles along with an F250 master cylinder? What calipers were used?
Do you have anymore details?
Do you have anymore details?
quote:Originally posted by Tom@Seal Beach:
Doug, you mentioned in a different thread that 67 Tbird rotors were used by some of the upgrade factory race cars? I believe you said they were 12" vented rotors front and rear that fit the stock spindles along with an F250 master cylinder? What calipers were used?
Do you have anymore details?
The front calipers are the same as the rotors. They are really generic "big Ford" and you will find them listed as 65-69 T-bird, Galaxie, or Lincoln.
The rear calipers on the race cars are different. I'm using a different set up then that on the rear of my beast. I put in an "upgraded" Lincoln Versalles rear.
The rotors are also now "generic". They are only nominally 12" and actually measure 11.75od x 1.25" thick.
The serious racers don't bother with them and use race rotors and hats that sit on the outside of the hub for faster servicing at the track.
The master I'm using was a Ford Service part I got around '75. It is bigger then the Mustang unit and you need to grind it to fit against the shock tower.
You also may not like the hardness of the pedal it gives you. The piston is 1-5/16".
I can't find the cross reference to it with the stamping number on the housing. It comes up a blank, but I was told it was for something like a '70 F250 with manual brakes. A strange beast.
Snaponbob, there are quite a few ways to improve braking. There are many threads on this forum that discuss rotor and caliper upgrades. One of the easiest I've looked at is the 66 mustang V8 rotor upgrade for the front...I understand that it is a direct swap, but the mustang rotor is a vented rotor, same diameter and thickness so it works with stock Girling calipers.
I've also read that there was a rotor and caliper swap done on some of the factory race cars where they took a stock Thunderbird rotor which is a larger vented rotor than what came on the Pantera. The picture below is a Stop Tech 70 Tbird rotor. It looks larger (11.75" I believe) and is vented, drilled and slotted. I don't believe it has an aluminum center which it looks like in the picture and there would likely be some changes you'd have to do to for calipers. But this rotor is only $114 per rotor. This might be a good way to go and then add Willwood calipers. Not sure if this would work for the rear. I have my rear rotors off am going to some local auto part stores to check out what options might work.
Your wheel size is also a consideration...do you have 15" wheels? I have 17's & 18's so I don't have clearance issues with larger rotors. 15's might force you to go to the smaller size Mustang rotor...Doug and JB surely could answer this?
I've also read that there was a rotor and caliper swap done on some of the factory race cars where they took a stock Thunderbird rotor which is a larger vented rotor than what came on the Pantera. The picture below is a Stop Tech 70 Tbird rotor. It looks larger (11.75" I believe) and is vented, drilled and slotted. I don't believe it has an aluminum center which it looks like in the picture and there would likely be some changes you'd have to do to for calipers. But this rotor is only $114 per rotor. This might be a good way to go and then add Willwood calipers. Not sure if this would work for the rear. I have my rear rotors off am going to some local auto part stores to check out what options might work.
Your wheel size is also a consideration...do you have 15" wheels? I have 17's & 18's so I don't have clearance issues with larger rotors. 15's might force you to go to the smaller size Mustang rotor...Doug and JB surely could answer this?
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The mustang rotors have become unobtainable. They were replaced with a combined hub, all cast in one piece.
The neatest "Pantera" brakes to have are the aluminum housing Girling 18/4, 16/4 calipers as run on the factory Gp4 race cars.
This is the very same as used on the 68 Ford GT40's which were called Gulfs and also the 70 Lola T70's.
You can still get them if you want to pay the price. About $3200 for the four calipers plus Fedex out of Great Britain.
The next best thing to do is go with a set of Wilwoods, front and rear. Not as retro cool as the Gr4 but a lot more reasonable and very, very obtainable.
SAAC Restorations right here on the forum has packages already set up to bolt on. He has them in degress of seriousness and has done virtually all of the figuring out necessary for you, just pick your level.
Just pick how much you want to spend.
Yes you could use a T-bird rotors front and back with the Wilwoods but why? Go with a race hat that sits over the hub and makes your life simpler.
The neatest "Pantera" brakes to have are the aluminum housing Girling 18/4, 16/4 calipers as run on the factory Gp4 race cars.
This is the very same as used on the 68 Ford GT40's which were called Gulfs and also the 70 Lola T70's.
You can still get them if you want to pay the price. About $3200 for the four calipers plus Fedex out of Great Britain.
The next best thing to do is go with a set of Wilwoods, front and rear. Not as retro cool as the Gr4 but a lot more reasonable and very, very obtainable.
SAAC Restorations right here on the forum has packages already set up to bolt on. He has them in degress of seriousness and has done virtually all of the figuring out necessary for you, just pick your level.
Just pick how much you want to spend.
Yes you could use a T-bird rotors front and back with the Wilwoods but why? Go with a race hat that sits over the hub and makes your life simpler.
Fact is, when I posted the original comment, I had only worked with the rear brakes. I have now taken apart the fronts. Certainly, the 4 piston front is what I would expect on such a car, but the rear setup really seems a bit under sized. No matter, the 72 is completely stock and will remain that way. Complete rebuild, new pads, DOT4 and done.
Snaponbob, when you are all done with your rebuild, and if the brakes aren't up to what you want, call Steve Wilkenson and ask him about his master cylinder swap...he says it transforms the stock brakes. I forget if he goes bigger or smaller on the master, but it gives more power and really works. I was planning on going that way but want vented rotors.
Doug you are right...the replacement rotors I'm seeing online for the mustangs do have the one piece bearing and rotor. Too bad that is one piece...that wouldn't work on the rear.
Doug you are right...the replacement rotors I'm seeing online for the mustangs do have the one piece bearing and rotor. Too bad that is one piece...that wouldn't work on the rear.
quote:
Doug you are right...the replacement rotors I'm seeing online for the mustangs do have the one piece bearing and rotor. Too bad that is one piece...that wouldn't work on the rear.
There is some talk of an exact reproduction but as of now they are difficult to find and not cheap.
I agree they are a great replacement for the rears.
FWIW
The unavailability of the Mustang rotor only was discussed in another thread on this forum last year. Mike Drew negotiated with Centric to tool up for a special run of just the rotors. This was a special one-time-only run that required a minimum "buy-in" of 20 pairs (40 rotors). Below is a pic of the rotor.
John
The unavailability of the Mustang rotor only was discussed in another thread on this forum last year. Mike Drew negotiated with Centric to tool up for a special run of just the rotors. This was a special one-time-only run that required a minimum "buy-in" of 20 pairs (40 rotors). Below is a pic of the rotor.
John
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The Mustang rotor (both the original Ford and the aftermarket one pictured above) is slightly larger in diameter than the stock Pantera front rotor. This requires some slight grinding of the stock Girling caliper, or slightly reducing the rotor's OD in a lathe.
John
John
quote:Originally posted by jb1490:
FWIW
The unavailability of the Mustang rotor only was discussed in another thread on this forum last year. Mike Drew negotiated with Centric to tool up for a special run of just the rotors. This was a special one-time-only run that required a minimum "buy-in" of 20 pairs (40 rotors). Below is a pic of the rotor.
John
This is true but the value of that rotor was that it was cheap and readily available. You could run down to your local 24/7 auto parts on Sunday afternoon and buy a pair for $28 each.
The original 65 Ford Mustang unit was not the best quality of the Mustang rotors. It's lousy casting to begin with and those were the US parts. Most rotors now are being cast in China now. The better ones are shipped here to machine them to specs.
To me this no longer makes much sense at all to invest the time into installing them in the Pantera rear.
If one is going to modify away from stock then do it the right way and go with a race hat/rotor, that sits over the flange so that you don't have to pull the entire rear suspension apart to do the rotors.
Yes, it is true that you can cut the rotors on the car. Here, there are few shops that will do it and even fewer shops that I would even allow one of the mechanics to drive the car onto the lift.
This modification no longer makes any sense to do.