Brake updates

Vince, a couple of thoughts.

Use Valvoline synthetic brake fluid, the boiling point is over 500 degrees, it is readily available & inexpensive, better than DOT 4 fluid.

You could run a 100% racing pad material, which will of course have a down side if you also drive on the street.

If you are running 17" wheels that permit larger rotors, I would suggest you can get into a Wilwood brake system for significantly less money than a Brembo system, the Wilwoods work great. Wilwood has a complete selection of brake pad materials to choose from, depending upon your needs. You might be able to find a Wilwood system used in the classifieds, on the mail list, etc if you keep an eye on them, you know, somebody whos "upgrading" to something else (a newer Wilwood system?) for their own personal reasons. The older Wilwood systems with 4 piston calipers & 12 3/4" rotors are head and shoulders better than the oem system.

George

Pantera Performance Center and I expect other Pantera vendors like PI MotorSports have a very good vented rotor system for the front that will fit with stock 15” wheels. The kit uses the stock rotors on the back with new larger calipers and pads. All of the good braking systems will fit with just 16” front wheels. You do not need 17” wheels to have good brakes. Don’t forget that the G4 factory cars had 15” wheels and very good brakes! Here’s a ink to a Pantera Performance installation http://www.panteraplace.com/page78.htm

Mike

Hey Guys,
Thanks for the input. The understanding that I have on The Valvoline Syn fluid is that there are issues with it's longevity and that it absorbs water quickly, sometimes after just a few weeks. I've also heard some supporting evidence at the track. Nothing scientific though, just word of mouth and the corner carvers board. The brakes themselves seem pretty good until after a while and then I believe it's a heat issue. A lot depends on the particular track. I think if I could just keep them cool, that would help a lot. A few little things add up to a big difference. At the end of the season I would love to invest in a set of Brembo or Wildwood calipers and rotors or something first class. I probably will. The reality here is that I'm just trying to buy some time with a few quick and dirty improvements. The summer is only half over. I'm also some what of a butcher mechanic and evertything takes me twice as long as everyone else. If any one here on the list is selling some brakes, please let me know. Once again, thanks to everyone for their knowledge and support. I wouldn't be able to run this car with out you guys and this board.

Do our cars use 69-70 Mustang rotors? I know I have options there for lighter and slotted rotors. Vince

Here is a link to Movit brakes systems, that I have been looking at. http://movitbrakes.com/rahmen/tomaso.htm
It is specifically designed for the Pantera and is supposed to be a direct bolt on kit. The price was quoted as fronts 2600 Euros rears 2300 euros w/ a 20%discount if both were purchased so you would be looking at roughly 4080 Euros which at todays prices equals roughly $4972.30 US dollars plus about $200 shipping. They said they might be able to increase the margin of savings for 5 or more orders Anyone interested??

Okay - here are a couple of cheap, easy do-them-this-summer upgrades for you.

Yes, the 65-67 Mustang vented rotors AND hubs are a direct, pure and simple BOLT IN for our Pantera spindles. Thickness and diameter are a match. Stainless Steel Brakes sells these in different "bling" styles, but the castings are the same for all the styles. SSB might have a bit better quality than some of the other off-shore stuff that floats around. They, as are most (all?) now sold are one piece hub/rotor castings. The original Ford units were two-piece, and show up now and then on eBay. You can pull your calipers, yank the hubs/rotors, knock the bearings out of your hub, swap the bearings into the races that come in the one piece Mustang rotors/hubs and bolt it all back together. I have not done this but have talked with an owner who has. His word is golden.

Pads. For track/street use you need to contact Porterfield. Their R4S compound will fill the bill, very nicely. Many owners have changed to these pads and all have been pleased with the results. I dumped my still thick (but not effective) original Wilwood pads on the 4-piston calipers from Quella (stock rotors) in favor of the Porterfields and noticed the difference right now. At Vegas Pahrump this year they worked great, and show little wear after four 25-30 minute sessions. Porterfield does sell pads for the original Pantera calipers, also. They are not cheap, I paid about $280 for my 8 pads. Yes, worth the money!

Hope this helps.

Larry

I have done the 66-67 Mustang rotor swap and it is about as straight forward as it gets. Takes the same bearings and seals as a stock hub. The only "fab" work required was blending a pair of the "help" rack auto parts dust caps. With the R4-S pads it was a major improvement. The downside is I now want MORE braking power. I have aquired a set of Brembo "big reds" which will be a winter project. The mustang rotor is pictured.

Thanks guys, Thats the stuff I neded to know. Vince

So with the Mustang hub/rotor upgrade, is it possible to upgrade calipers along with it? I would think modern replacements for even old Mustangs must be better than stock Pantera brakes?

Hey Parapantera,
Nice looking rotors there. Are they from SSB or another source. A part # recommendation would be great. I seem to remember from my Mustang days that the first generation stang was 64 to 66 and the second generation was 66 and 67. The previous posts recommendations seem to span 2 generations. Are your updated rotors first generation Mustang or second or was the rotor change something that happened mid year? I seem to remember that my 69 Boss 302 rotors were interchangeable with a larger 71 parts. You'll have to let me know how the new calipers work when you get them on. Thanks

quote:

So with the Mustang hub/rotor upgrade, is it possible to upgrade calipers along with it? I would think modern replacements for even old Mustangs must be better than stock Pantera brakes?

Matt,

Various vendors have caliper upgrades that will work on the stock sized rotors. I have Wilwood superlites installed by Quella and still have stock rotors at all four corners. I do not believe there is really anything wrong with the stock calipers - if they are in good repair, that is. For most street-fun time driving, a stock system in full operating condition - with the Porterfields - will probably suffice for most drivers.

Larry

Korina, I got mine from SSBC and can be viewed here Rotors. There are different part numbers for right and left. You mustuse 65-67 rotors only! The 68-69 rotors are close, but there is a slight difference in the outer bearing size. Hope this helps.
Ron

quote:

Originally posted by LF - TP 2511:
I do not believe there is really anything wrong with the stock calipers - if they are in good repair, that is. For most street-fun time driving, a stock system in full operating condition - with the Porterfields - will probably suffice for most drivers.

Larry

Heat build-up on a solid rotor can be a serious problem, even in street driving. Heat has no place to go except onto the caliper and pads.

That is, unless you're talking about the stock vented rotor as used in Euro Panteras.

Josh

quote:

Heat build-up on a solid rotor can be a serious problem

Josh,

Yup, sure can be. Been there-done that. On LVMS in 2003 at the PCNC Track Event. Boiled the front calipers dry. Luckily it was at the end of the session, after we had been flagged to the pits. One lap earlier and I would have had a major OH-OH hitting the 90 degree right at the end of the front straight. However, on my regular foothill weekend drives I've never had any problems with the solids. But those drives are much calmer than the track events :-)

But we were talking about upgrading to the SSBC rotors, which are vented. The Euro GTS rotors were also vented, but are pretty scarce. And of course are about 30 years old, probably turned once or twice already.

The SSBC rotors Ron used are the top of the line at $134 apiece. You can get just the bare metal for $60, or slotted for $84. All, according to the rep I talked to, are the same castings.

While you can never have too much braking performance, I still stand by my statement that a fully up to snuff stock system, with good Porterfield R4S pads will suffice for most drivers.

Larry

Sounds good Larry. Appreciate the input.

Josh

Thanks for the parts #. That's what I was hoping for. Some one whose been there and done that. Vince

How much ae the Mustang rotors? Where can I buy them?