Building an economical 351C

quote:

Originally posted by jeff6559:
...So what d'ya reckon this baby would cost to get it done, including machine work. I am definitely not expert or even experienced in this area so that's why I am asking. Here's a typical economy rebuild and it would cost about $_______....l

Jeff, rather than give you a hard fast number, I'll give you an idea of what you are buying:

1) the builders price for the parts, plus maybe a 10% mark up (profit for the builder). Some builders don't mark up the prices, some mark them up even more. There are a few things I've left off the list, such as gaskets. Poor quality parts cost less than the top name brand parts. This is one place builders will cut costs to quote you a cheap price, or to maximize their profit. You can open up a Summit catalog and price a lot of the things on my list.

2) the builder's cost for the machine work (block, heads, crank, rods, porting, balancing). The builder may farm out some or all of this work, or he may do it in house. Even done in house, there are still substantial costs for labor & machinery built into the price of ths work.

3) the builder's cost for the dyno time. A big operation will be capable of doing that in house, a small guy will have to farm it out. The guy cutting corners to give you a low price will bypass the dyno altogether. This is OK if he's just re-building a stock motor. This is a bad idea if he's building a modified motor.

4) the labor to assemble the motor. I would spend 40 hours easily to carefully build a motor. In todays market, that is about $3,200 ($80 per hour). The garage mechanics, rebuilders, etc would laugh, thinking 8 hours is plenty of time. This is another area where the guy trying to give you a bargain price is going to cut corners, or a dishonest mechanic will over charge in order to increase his profit.

your friend on the DTBB

Actualy the more you guys talk, the more I realize I got a pretty good deal.

I think that if you use your core and replace all the wear parts like the cam, lifters, push rods and use quality forged pistons you are in the $5000 to $8000 range.
Mine is a $13,000-14,000 (if I paid myself the labor) enginge but I started from scratch sourcing everything, block, crank, rods, using things like roller rocker arms, Motorsport aluminum A3 heads, etc.
There are a few racers here that will tell you that you generally get what you pay for. I could have spent a bunch more in dyno developement work. I would expect a good strong competative Cleveland to cost somewhere around $20,000 fully dialed in.
I didn't use CJ level components. I started with the Boss level using genuine Ford replacement parts. Pistons were TRW at $50 each, etc. I upgraded using things like a chrome molly oil pump drive shaft, CL77 race bearings, double molly rings, Aviad pan and on and on.
I am fortunate in that I can and do build the engine myself, but that really started way back because I simply don't trust anyone else with my life.
When you go to Paratrooper School in the US Army, they teach you to fold your own 'chute' and tell you to always do your own if you want to stay alive.
I've always continued that philosophy which is really a good thing because it has kept me growing in new areas (and alive).
I've got pictures of me "dropping" the engine in for the first time but it wouldn't go in as I expected. The pictures are of the wrong way in.
It was kind of the first indication that this car might not really have been designed with an engine this long in mind. Go figure?
Installation and hook up in a Pantera is no little thing to scoff at either.
You might want to check out Hall Pantera or other vendors engines. They offer them in package levels and because of thier experience should offer some area of comfort to you.