BUYER BEWARE! SOMEBODY CUT THE VINS' OFF THE CAR! Huh???

Can you check under the headlight buckets to see if the last 4 are stamped there?

...maybe that was an accident...(!) All the ID just fell off...

But next what? there is some remote chance that the previous owner didn't actually know--over 40 years, any real thief would have found a totaled car (say, something burned to a crisp) and rebuilt it with pieces from this car. But its too late for that now.

How possibly does this car become legit, until at least its true ID is known? With 'void title,' it still belongs to whoever had it disappear on them long 40 years ago...but if I were the unlucky purchaser, I'd be quickly knocking on someone's door...

I’d be knocking on the door of whoever sold it to me!

I’d want all my money & expenses, plus all my shipping expenses (to/from the seller, to/from Pantera Miami), all title & registrations paid back, or I’d call the cops…

I’d throw it all back to the seller, and make it their problem…  but…  apparently the buyer didn’t do his homework!

Rocky

...there is really no alternative to calling the cops at this point. Whoever chopped the vin number off, whoever borrowed the car from its original owner--they are strangely the one who doesn't need to worry about going to jail (the statute of limitations has long run out). But the timer starts now for whoever is in possession of the car--meaning, a resale, chop shop parts for sale, or hiding the car would represent a brand new crime.

  At least, lets hope the new owner didn't pay Gas Monkey style (with a big pile of cash...)...Lee

hi, my car was stolen 1975 and also restamped  with a bad VIN from an other car.

the car got back the real VIN (from the headlights) by the highway police in 2015!!! (many thanks to Mike Drew)

https://www.provamo.com/Member...967/RTHPNNE06967.asp

  Unbelievable, 40 years ?!? So it was Mike who suspected something while inspecting the car? How then to trace back to you?  (curious on the headlights, I don't know Pantera stampings...for a Mangusta, a few dozen pieces will have the last 2 digits for the Vin, even if not all correct on a single car (in my car, both a rear window trim and the bracket for the AC condenser are 'for' another car..).

  But 40 years, that beats my story of finding my stolen guitar on Ebay after 23 years...Lee

no i bought the car 2016 😁

at this time the „stolen“ problem was already solved by mike.

the police wanted to apply a new VIN to the car
but mike said we know the real VIN, so why not put them back to the car (otherwise with new 2015 VIN, the car will be a kitcar)
the car got a new mettal plate with the old VIN otherwise it were not possible to export the car.

on provamo you can see some fotos from the VIN stamp in the headlight

wow, so the last 4 digits are absolutely unique to a single car? https://www.provamo.com/Member...Info/VINDecoder.asp?  Now, just a question of finding who is still alive and gets their car back...

@leea posted:

wow, so the last 4 digits are absolutely unique to a single car? https://www.provamo.com/Member...Info/VINDecoder.asp?  Now, just a question of finding who is still alive and gets their car back...

I keep thinking about the Mangusta owner whose car was stolen in the 80's. The car is alive and well on the registry, located in several different EU countries in recent years. Sadly the car was stolen in the US. It would be hard to unravel such a long chain of custody. Even if it all went down in one US state, it seems like a long shot. Adding the element of international law dashes my hope of any return.

  At least in the US, the law is pretty clear on title--especially dashing any defense of 'innocent purchase' (bona fide purchase)...The car was stolen, it still belongs to whoever it was stolen from. And basically doing anything with the car is a potential for being accused of handling stolen property.

   In this case, very possibly the seller was an innocent purchaser--that really gave up cash to buy the car at a reasonable price and had no way of understanding otherwise (lets pretend, bought it as a barn find, or out of a storage unit for $15k...maybe even damaged, whatever). Except for not looking themselves for a Vin, lets say their judgment was impeccable and the deal didn't clearly stink. But then, sorry, in US law this buyer is now the second victim in the chain--being a bona fide purchaser doesn't protect stolen property.

Legally, whoever has the car right now doesn't have to a thing...even, doing anything other than calling the cops may be illegal. Whoever is in possession of the car doesn't need to call the cops, but if they 'hide' it or sell it in pieces (much less, imagine selling the whole car) they become the Krimi Verbrecher themselves.

   So recourse is naturally to get their money back from the seller--which really, should be assumed as a starting point...The good news, some justice could be done to the original owner or maybe their estate...Lee

Very well written counselor! He bought a car sight unseen for 49. Once I blew the whistle the Dealer in Texas said he would discount the price to $30,000 if he wants to keep the car. The buyer called me back all excited and said Shark I have to have this car! It’s a deal at 30,k. I said are you crazy? Have you gone out of your mind?? I think 15 cents is too much for that car ! Think about the probable legal ramifications. He returned the car and then received a full refund.

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  Discount the price, a dealer in Texas selling a car with mutilated Vins? And then trying to cash out to avoid more problems?

At least, if the buyer has his money back, the world would be better served if the true Vin were noted here. But meanwhile, it seems there is a "dealer" in Texas (which requires posting a sign, basically) who stands to lose a lot more than just his dealer's license or his own investment in the car.

I’m sorry, but any dealer is wise enough know that a car without a clear transferable title is worthless other than for parts. They may well be illegal parts of that. Seems to me there is some pretty clear culpability here. Glad to hear you got your money back.

there is nothing legal about parting a stolen car---that makes the dealer a chop shop.  Neither do I detect any wisdom in the dealer here, in their offer to cut the price I think they've shown who they are...

..and hmm, why didn't I expect it to be managed by the Feds. How wonderful life is when the FBI doesn't care where you live...  https://www.justice.gov/archiv...-motor-vehicle-parts

just index thru the arrows at the bottom and see how many ways to end up in jail...better to not be clever, and selling parts from a stolen car for thousands of dollars would only be $$tupid...

@scifi posted:

I keep thinking about the Mangusta owner whose car was stolen in the 80's. The car is alive and well on the registry, located in several different EU countries in recent years. Sadly the car was stolen in the US. It would be hard to unravel such a long chain of custody. Even if it all went down in one US state, it seems like a long shot. Adding the element of international law dashes my hope of any return.

Just because the car was stolen in the US, doesn’t mean it can’t be recovered in the EU. There are no borders when it comes to stolen cars, with the possible exception of the Russian and Chinese borders. Cars are stolen, loaded into containers and shipped overseas daily. Most are chopped and sold as parts but many are recovered. If the original owner can’t be bothered to go after it, I wonder if he could sell it, without having physical possession, and let the new owner go after it? Hmmm 🤔

Wouldn't happen to be a burgundy flared out gold painted wheels gold double pin stripe car would it!

If the original owner can’t be bothered to go after it, I wonder if he could sell it, without having physical possession, and let the new owner go after it? Hmmm 🤔

Sure, its a power of attorney if the owner wants to keep it, otherwise of course a rightful owner can sell something they have no possession of and don't know where it is. Even, if the car was insured then, this transfer has already occurred.

Assuming that this car was harvested in Texas decades ago, its possible that the records for the car are fully purged (statute of limitations for the thief is at only 3 years, and records on thefts are deleted after 10 years, at least in my experience with the guitar). Maybe its different for for Autos, but the federal statute is damn clear that a car w/removed vins is a hot potato.

Back to the second post on this thread.

Was anyone able to pop off a headlight bucket to see if the last four of the VIN are still there?