Cam and lifter problems

You need to be 100% sure that there is oil pressure to each lifter.
You need to be sure that the lifters match the camshaft, the springs match, you don't have spring bind.
In addition there are engines that require the lifter bores in the block to be honed to fit the new lifters.
It isn't that uncommon that the lifter bores are too tight.
In the old days, 351c lifters were specific to the engine and not generic Ford SB lifters.
The oiling orafice is a different size.
These are all fairly unusual possibilaties but what happened to you is very unusual as well.
It is lubrication related.

quote:

Originally posted by Husker:
Newly rebuilt engine. Checked and double checked to ensure it would fire first time. Used drill and adaptor to run the oil pump prior to starting. Never went below 2000 rpm for first 20 minutes. At least one lifter badly damaged. Engine has run for a whole hour. Why do I get the impression that the new cams are using substandard materials? I HATE rework!!!!

Did you run the drill clockwise to prime?

Mark,

Over the last half decade lifter / cam lobe failures have become far more common than they ever had been in the past. It was first suspected that quality control of parts coming from China was at least partially responsible for the troubles you and thousands of others have experienced.

However, the finger is now firmly pointed at modern oils designed for gasoline engines, because they are lacking in an additive that had been used in oil for 5 decades. "ZDDP" (zinc dialkyl-dithiophophate). ZDDP is a friction modifier used in motor oils and transmission oil. It coats the cam lobes to prevent the type of failure you are experiencing.

The phosphorus in ZDDP deposits a tenacious coating on the catalyst in catalytic converters, preventing contact between the catalyst and the exhaust gases, and leading to a gradual decrese in the effectiveness of a vehicles emissions system. So the automotive industry has been slowly specifying less and less ZDDP in the motor oil formulations for gasoline engines over the last 20 years. SG spec motor oil only had 0.15% ZDDP, SL spec motor oil had decreased that to 0.05%. The most curent motor oil spec is SM, I have yet to read how much ZDDP is specified in SM rated motor oil. But it seems to me, that the next step after 0.05% is probably none at all!

If you thought Ford & GM switched to roller cams in their OHV engines in the late 1980s to increase performance, think again. The move was made to allow lower levels of ZDDP in the motor oil without camshaft failure.

You have four choices to cope with the lack of ZDDP in motor oil:

(1) Switch to a roller camshaft
(2) Use an oil additive containing ZDDP
(3) Use an oil designed for diesel engines
(4) Use "racing" oil

Additives allegedly containing ZDDP include GM EOS, Bardahl 1 and Valvoline Synpower.

I see more and more enthusiasts switching to diesel engine lubricants. I've been recommending Castrol motor oil with additive, but the truth is I've never thought too highly of the quality or usefulness of "oil additives". I've been familiarizing myself with diesel engine lubricants and I am comfortable enough with them now that I will be recommending them in the future. Diesel engine oils include Rotella, Delvac and Delo. My favorite, Castrol, also sells Diesel oil. If you can, use a single grade oil as opposed to a mulit-viscosity oil. Finally, racing oils are "supposed" to contain as much ZDDP as was used in the good old (pre 1985) days. Probably the first racing oil that comes into everyone's mind is Valvoline.

Sorry to read of your misfortune.

Your friend on the DTBB

George. How do you explain that most modern engines run 200,000 to 250,000 miles with no cam or lifter problems at all. Just curious.

Few engines these days have lifters, most are over head cam. Those engines that do have lifters employ roller lifters.

It has always been taught that the first 1/2 hour of break-in was the most critical time for a flat tappet camshaft. Older engines were broken in when motor oil contained a higher level of ZDDP.

your friend on the DTBB

A good friend of mine had the exact same result as you did. He asked by the machine shop if he used mobil1 oil for initial breakin, which he did. He was told this was a big mistake and very prone to have problems like you had. I had never heard of any thing like that, but they swear by it. So use a good quality motor oil, but no synthetics. I'm sure this has something to do with the ZDDP like George was talking about.

Absolutely rapid - K, break any motor in for 500 miles on a good mineral oil based motor oil containing ZDDP, afterwards its OK (recommended by me) to switch to synthetics.

There is BUZZ all over the internet on the subject of flat tappet camshaft wear. Its a very big deal. I found an article stating the current limit (maximum) for zddp in gasolione engine motor oil is 0.01% by weight.

Below is a link to the entire article where I found that info, its good reading, at least you'll know your moderator isn't full of cr*p!

http://highperformancepontiac.com/tech/hppp_0606_unders...motor_oil/index.html

your friend on the DTBB

I found the Valvoline's VR-1 racing oil is advertised as having ZDDP. It also say in the Product Info that is recommended for street use.
Perhaps this would be a good oil for our cars.
What do you think?
http://www.valvoline.com/pages/products/product_detail.asp?product=50

Also STP 'Oil Stabilizer' claims it.
http://www.stp.com/oil_stabil.html

The only mention of ZDDP I can find on BP, Castrol, Esso(Exxon), Elf, Havoline, Mobil, Pennzoil, Shell sites is in Hydraulic oil.

Zinc is an important additive for those driving the car hard. It helps protect the bearings when you loose oil supply in a turn as well as extended wear. My brother had about 10k miles on his Cobra when he swapped to synthetic Without zinc. His first time out he blew his bearings in the bottom end. He pulled the pan off (in car) swapped bearings, went back to dino oil with zinc and put another 20k miles (with many track and drag events) before pulling it to put a larger disp engine in. The engine is still ready to go now.

Is there an additive that is easily available to just add to the oil?
Is there such a thing as dding too much?

Check for coil spring bind. Then if you have no bind there, make sure that the spring pressures are correct. I had built two engines using the same machine shop and Manuel screwed the up on the pressures. Switched to another machine shop and had no more problems. I'm sure you did things correctly, it's usually something mismatched or bad machine work.

Two problems with the spring pressures could be...Too low pressures or too high of pressures. I don't know if you have dual springs, but some cam manufacturers require you to remove the inner springs for breakin. Good luck!

quote:

Originally posted by micks74:
some cam manufacturers require you to remove the inner springs for breakin. Good luck!

Correct mick, my drag race friend burned his new cam, BBC, He replaced it and took out the inner spring for break in. Still winning today!