casting numbers?

The block numbers are facing down and can be found above the starter area of the block. I think I had my starter out of the car at the time I was looking at them but you might be able to see them with the starter in place. The head numbers are on the lower side of the heads along the intake runners and of coarse can only be seen with the intake removed. I used a mirror to see them after the intake was removed.

Mike

Thanks for the info, the engine is out of the car. I'll have a look today.

OK, I found the block casting numbers D2AE-CA. According to some web pages, it is described as:

"Four bolt main bearing caps. Originally equipped with split lip rear main bearing seal. Special block cast with thicker cylinder walls and siamesed bores for racing use carries an XE192540 casting number."

Any good?

I still can't locate the head casting numbers. The intake is off but I still don't see them. Maybe if I poke around with my white tipped cane a bit more . . .

Dennis,

Cleveland engines are not easily identified from the outside, as you are learning. All production Cleveland blocks are pretty much the same, some have four bolt main caps, some do not. All production blocks cast in the US between summer of 1971 and the end of production had a casting number of D2AE-CA, that includes blocks with both 2 bolt main caps and 4 bolt main caps, blocks for 2V motors and 4V motors. All production blocks in Australia also had a casting number of D2AE-CA! (excepting the XE blocks that made it into production vehicles).

I have heard of 351 Cobra Jet motors, with D2AE-CA blocks, equipped with only 2 bolt main caps. I have seen a 351C 2V motor, D2AE-CA block, equipped with 4 bolt main caps.

The cylinder heads will have a casting date code cast into them that is visible by removing the valve cover, but it may be hidden by a layer of oily gunk, aka "splooge". It will be nestled between two rocker arm pedestals, on top of one of the intake ports. It is a 4 digit number, composed of a number, a letter, and 2 more numbers. I have a set of heads in the garage with the follwing code "9L25". It decodes this way:

9 = 1969
L = November
25 = 25th day of november.

The letter I was omitted from Ford's date code, so even though L is the 12th letter of the alphabet, it denotes the 11th month.

Since these heads have a "4" cast into the upper corners, denoting large port heads, I can deduce from the casting date that they are 4V heads cast for a 1970 motor, which means they have the small "closed" combustion chambers and large valves. I didn't need to know the casting number or see the combustion chamber.

Another way to identify motors that are relatively unmodified, the intake manifolds come in 4 distinct varieties, a cast iron square bore manifold that came on 1970 & 1971 M code motors, an aluminum spread bore manifold that came on 1971 & 1972 R code motors (solid lifter cams), a cast iron spread bore manifold with a small trench above the primary holes on the carb mounting pad that came on the late 1971 & 1972 Q code Cobra Jet motors and a cast iron spread bore manifold with an additional large trench cast along the right side of the carb mounting pad (to feed exhaust gas to the EGR valve), this manifold was found on the 1973 & 1974 Q code 351C 4V motors (Cobra Jets renamed).

All R code & Q code motors were equipped with dual point distributors too.

Your friend on the DTBB

I guess that I'll be removing the heads and oil pan to see for sure. I finally found the casting numbers on the heads but cannot find them in any web site listings. Have you ever heard of D8ZE ?

BTW, the casting date number under the valve cover is a three digit number 2J2. Does this mean:

2= 1972

J= September

2= second day of the month

Dennis,

I assume this is a 4V head with the number 4 cast into the upper corners. You are probably misreading D8ZE, it is probably D3ZE. It decodes this way:

D = decade of the 1970s
3 = 1973
Z = part designed for Mustangs
E = part designed by the engine/powertrain engineering group

If this were a D8ZE casting, indicating 1978, then the date code would indicate it was cast in 1982, not 1972. However, the Z in the casting number would be out of place, as the 335 series motors were not intended for Mustangs in that era. The only 335 series motors in production in 1978 (or 1982 for that matter) were 351M & 400 motors. The heads for those motors have no numbers cast into the corners.

The 3 digit date code of 2J2 indicates somebody in the casting plant was lazy that day and left off a digit! Ha, ha, ha ..... It could be 02, or it could just as well be 20, 21, 22 ... 29. It is sufficient to know the head was cast in September 1972, and was therefore intended for a 1973 model Ford (or Pantera). This confirms you are misreading the casting number.

I'm really showing my Ford NERDINESS aren't I?

aloha from your friend on the DTBB

George,

Ford nerdness is good! There are 4's stamped in the corner and it came out of a 1974. This 1974 was full of earlier model parts though which is what sparks my curiosity of the motor that came out of it. I assume that these heads are the late model open chamber "junk" heads?

Dennis,

there are no bad Cleveland heads, some are just better than others.

The '73 to '74 heads still have large ports. They have the largest combustion chambers (78.4 cc nominal) and the smaller 2V valves, but you have to replace the valves anyway, right? So you replace them with 4V size valves.

With flat top pistons & a zero decked block, those heads will yield about 9.0:1 compression ratio, assuming the motor has not been bored or stroked. Milling another 0.030" off the heads will yield about 9.5:1 compression ratio. This is a reasonable compression ratio for a mild sreeet motor running pump gas.

These are also great heads for a stroker as the compression ratio will be OK even with flat top pistons.

Keep in mind those "junk" heads will support over 650 bhp with the right motor work. Do that with a set of 1973 Chevy castings!

your Cleveland loving friend on the DTBB

I had heard that open chamber with thereverse dish pistons reponds great to turbo charging. You can run seven or eight pounds of boost without pinging. If you put close chambered heads on an engine with the dished pistons, you would have your 9.5 to one compresion ratio without doing nothin else and it would also bereal ping resistant cause the quench action would drive everything to the cneter under the plug, right where you want it. The only time you get into ping problems is with closed chamber, flat top pistons. But if you run racegas, no problem.

George,

I got the heads off today. The casting numbers are: D3ZE-AA Open chamber heads. Not sure if they are the larger or smaller sized valves. I'm measurement impaired and don't have the tool. Can you tell from the picture?

Dennis, if its a '73, those are the small size valves, i.e. 2.05"/1.65". Small is a relative term, as they are larger than the valves on the premium small block Chevy head of the era (2.02"/1.60"). The valves on a 428 Cobra Jet were 2.09"/1.65". I can see in the picture those are the oem Ford valves, they should be replaced with 1 piece, single groove, stainless steel valves. When doing so, the valves can be upgraded to the larger 4V size valves, i.e. 2.19"/1.71".

George

I dropped the oil pan today and found 4 bolt mains. Anything else I should look for?

Emptied out the oil pan today and found plastic chips. I pulled off the timing gear and sure enough, several teeth were cracked. This motor had 40k and looks like it was well cared for. I have service receipts to indicate this. If you haven't replaced your original timing gear, some food for thought.

What do I look for to tell if this motor has a good crank? Any numbers or markings?