clutch Release bearing

You can do some measuring, but, yes, I believe you will have to do something with the hub. Generally, diaphragm clutch fingers stick farther out than the old three finger ones. On my car, even with the throwout bearing all the way back, there was no space between the T.O. bearing and the pressure plate spring. I modified my hub on my lathe to get clearance, but an easier way is to buy an adjustable hub (from P.I. of course). And because diaphragm clutches require more movement to disengage, I had to go to a long throw slave. It's all worth the effort, though, because the pedal feels soooo much better. Anybody else have different opinions on this? -Steve

There are two different types of diaphragm clutches; the Centerforce is a bent-finger, while GM uses a straight finger pressure plate that also takes a radius-face throwout bearing. Using a straight-finger pressure plate with a flat-face throwout give a "stepped" or jerky feel to the clutch action.

So yes- a Centerforce can use a std flat face Pantera throwout bearing with no trouble. And the only time I found little clearance was on a Pantera with an aluminum flywheel. Some alloy flywheels have a thicker flange at the crank area for more strength, which moves the clutch away from the block. Clearances in the clutch area are pretty tight under the best of circumstances.

Centerforce lists their DF021057S for the Pantera application. It requires a flywheel with a 5.0 mustang style bolt pattern and uses the standard pantera release bearing. The only thing "special" is that they drilled the pressure plate holes for larger bolts.
I used the DF700000. It is the old 11" ford diaphram style. It requires a .400 shorter bearing. You can cut that much off your bearing carrier or as I did, use Mcleod's adjustable bearing #16525 and remove both spacer rings.

regards...Mark #3461

Any body have picture's of the throw out bearing & clutch's. just smoked the throw out bearing.
This may be the beginning of the Motor and trans R&R.

Mark

Save yourself a LOT of expensive grief in piecing a clutch system together, and simply call your favorite Pantera parts vendor for replacement(s). The Pantera clutch is fitted into a very tight-fitting enclosure, so Mustang parts don't fit without modifications, and many clutch covers (the part your throwout contacts) sold as 'racing' or 'heavy-duty' are far too stiff for comfortable street driving. The throwout bearing is a std part but there are two slightly different bore sizes for the two different iron bearing carriers; choosing the wrong one will cause unexplained rattles to come from your bellhousing. Finally, for what its worth, I ALWAYS change the pilot bushing when the clutch is being worked on- and correct 351C bushings are not always available. 'Correct' bushings will NOT be magnetic; cheap Far-East magnetic bushings will wear the nose of a ZF shaft and you do NOT want to know the replacement cost of one of those beauties!

quote:

Originally posted by Mark Savage:
Centerforce lists their DF021057S for the Pantera application. It requires a flywheel with a 5.0 mustang style bolt pattern and uses the standard pantera release bearing. The only thing "special" is that they drilled the pressure plate holes for larger bolts.
I used the DF700000. It is the old 11" ford diaphram style. It requires a .250 shorter bearing. You can cut that much off your bearing carrier or as I did, use Mcleod's adjustable bearing #16525 and remove both spacer rings.

regards...Mark #3461

I am planning to do this conversion. Do you cut the .250" off the base of the carrier where the bearing seats to get more clearance from the bearing to the PP fingers? Thanks.

Hello Dennis,

I originally said .250 inches needed to be cut, but I just measured the spacers I took off my Mcleod adjustable TB #16525 and it measured .4 inches. As I remember, the Mcleod with both spacers installed and the original TB where the same height. My memory is just a bit shakey. The Mcleod tech line originally told me about the cut. Give "Red" a call at Mcleod to verify. He gave me the measurments I used to determine how many spacers to remove.(that measurment I forgot also-damn memory!). It is the base of the carrier that gets cut but again I chose to go the adjustable route so I don't have direct experience with the actual cut technique. A lot easier to go with the adjustable but it does costs a little over $100.00
Hope all this helps!

regards... Mark Savage

Thanks for the quick reply. I'll give Red a call and find out. I figure cutting the carrier will save money now and in the long run replacing the T/O bearing.

I checked and they actually have the specs listed under Pantera on their site. This is the height information:


STOCK bearing 2.225

ADJUSTABLE #16525 - .200" SHORTER = 2.025 (1 spacer removed)

ADJUSTABLE #16525 - .400" SHORTER + 1.825 (2 spacers removed)

Using Mcleod T/O bearing part number 16525 and removing both shims will make the bearing .400" shorter and allow the use of the 306850 diaphragm pressure plate. The alterntive is to have your T/O bearing carrier milled down .400" and use a stock T/O bearing. The extro .400" is required to clear the diaphragm fingers which protrude further out of the pressure plate

quote:

Originally posted by 4NFORD:
ADJUSTABLE #16525 - .200" SHORTER = 2.025

ADJUSTABLE #16525 - .400" SHORTER + 1.825

Dennis,

You've got the same part number here for both applications. Do you have to specify length, or is it an error?

Michael

The throw out bearing #16525 is adjustable by removing two shims. You can remove one or both to alter the measurment. Removing both reduces the length by .400" which is reported by Mark Savage after measuring the spacers that were removed.

Larry Stock has emailed me that Mcleod had told him that this is not a recommended pressure plate for the Pantera but two other members report using it with success. They also related that the recommendation came from Mcleod.

I was told that Dennis Quella sells a stock replacement diaphragm setup and I confirmed this with Becky. They also say that you need to use an adjustable throw out bearing which costs the same as the Mcleod unit #16525. Conicidence? Becky names their parts as Mcleod units but I have not confirmed that the part numbers are the same.

I will likely take a chance and purchase the diaphragm pressure plate and machine my spare bearing carrier for the clearance. I'll post my findings whenever I get to it. If anyone tries it first, let me know your findings.

quote:

machine my spare bearing carrier for the clearance.

I might suggest that for those of us without a spare carrier, the McCleod adjustable bearing has one big advantage....

Pantera ZF specific bearing carriers do not cross the parts counter at NAPA or Pep Boys. Never have and never will. And what their availability will be years from now is anybody's guess.

Modifying that part for YOUR purposes today will very likely create a major problem for the future owners of your car. Your well-kept records may be long-lost thirty years from now, and some poor soul is going to have NO IDEA what the heck is wrong with his throwout bearing geometry.

My 2¢

Larry

In case you are not aware P I Motor Sports sells the 11" McCleod kit for $380.00 and the throw out bearing and adapter $150.00 both good prices, I'll be going with there pressure plate and disc on my build!
http://www.pim.net/pim2.html

The clutch kit that P.I. sells is the long style and already comes with a T/O bearing. It does not require the adjustable T/O bearing. We're referring to a diaphragm style pressure plate which requires the adjustable bearing or machining the carrier.

quote:

Originally posted by LF - TP 2511:

quote:

machine my spare bearing carrier for the clearance.

I might suggest that for those of us without a spare carrier, the McCleod adjustable bearing has one big advantage....

Pantera ZF specific bearing carriers do not cross the parts counter at NAPA or Pep Boys. Never have and never will. And what their availability will be years from now is anybody's guess.

Modifying that part for YOUR purposes today will very likely create a major problem for the future owners of your car. Your well-kept records may be long-lost thirty years from now, and some poor soul is going to have NO IDEA what the heck is wrong with his throwout bearing geometry.

My 2¢

Larry

Actually, from what I understand, once machined, your carrier will still use the stock Pantera bearing. The only problem would be if you wanted to go back to the stock long style pressure plate, the T/O bearing would sit .400" too far back and you would have to shim it forward.

quote:

The only problem would be if you wanted to go back to the stock long style pressure plate, the T/O bearing would sit .400" too far back and you would have to shim it forward.

Precisely.

And 30 years from now when someone can't figure out why the stock parts he bought are no where close to working, the tell tale machining signs on the carrier are long obscured and not noticeable, the poor guy will be pulling his hair out trying to figure out what is wrong with his installation.

Larry

quote:

Originally posted by LF - TP 2511:

quote:

The only problem would be if you wanted to go back to the stock long style pressure plate, the T/O bearing would sit .400" too far back and you would have to shim it forward.

Precisely.

And 30 years from now when someone can't figure out why the stock parts he bought are no where close to working, the tell tale machining signs on the carrier are long obscured and not noticeable, the poor guy will be pulling his hair out trying to figure out what is wrong with his installation.

Larry

Which is why I keep a log of all work, parts etc changes accompanied by pictures of the work being done.

Anyway, in 30 years, I'll be burried in my car so no one will need to figure out what I've done!