Cooling issue

What is the temperature during an extended drive at highway speeds?

Anders

In general high-flow fans are a low-speed remedy, a larger radiator is a high-load remedy. A high load can be a very hot day, an uphill road, or high speeds.

I think if you can answer two questions it will help people understand your problem:

(1) Is the 408 engine a 351C or a 351W?

(2) Do the cooling problems occur during stop and go driving, during high speed driving, or both?

At highway speed the water temp gauge show just above 90 celcius. It is moore a stop and go and idle problem.
The motor has a new efi sytem and need moore mapping/tuning, both on fuel and ignition. Motor is a Fontana block 902 deck hight (Windsor style) and AFD Cleveland style heads. We use to call it "Clevor".
Just wonder if the radiator not have capacity to cool the motor because it is a 408. Should an aluminium motor run cooler it self?
Thank you guys

Anders

If it used to run cooler, perhaps your radiator just needs to be cleaned, flushed, or boiled out.

Check cooling system for leaks with pressure tester

Radiator is ok and no leaks. Question to you that have Fontana installed what radiator do you have?

Anders

Forgott to mention that I have an oil cooler too,
temp in oilpan ca 90-100 celcius during high way speed but I have to run an electric fan now and then that is mounted behind the oil cooler

You mention that the fuel & ignition need more tuning/mapping; perhaps the ignition is too retarded and/or the fuel is lean?

Updating
Adjustment done on fuel and ignition. 2 degrees initial advance running very smooth,800 rpm, starts easy. 38 - 40 total advance. With low inital advance there is moore throttle angle (individual throttle bodies). Water temp 90 celcius on high way, still 100 celcius after some time at idle.
Did this yesterday and after some adjustment the car run very well

You guys that running Fontanas what cooling system do you have?
Anders

Nothing at all wrong with 212f water temps. Oil should be 10 to 20 degrees hotter. You want the oil to run somewhere around 220.

It is the oil temp that needs to boil out the moisture.

If you use full synthetic oil like Mobil 1 it is good to about 400F so there is no issue with cooking the oil at all.

You should have a 16psi cap on the cooling system. That will give you almost 260 f before the coolant will boil over.

I think you are running on the cool side of normal. I wouldn't worry about this at all. You are over reacting.

Use an idiot light from a 70 Mustang from the "engine hot" sender to turn on the cooling fan for the oil cooler.

It is set at 212.

Put a Mocal oil thermostat in line to the oil cooler. There are two temperatures available. The standard one is 180. The high temp is 200. Use the high temp.

If this car has the Aviaid oil pan, with the oil cooler, and the additional oil in the lines to the cooler, the oil will NEVER get hot unless you use these thermostats.

Over cooling oil in the long run is damaging to the engine.

It has to get hot.

Many race cars these days are using an oil heater to bring the oil temp up before they rev the engine.

Long stroke engines are the hardest on the bearings and the oil can not be cold.

I am using this thermostat with -10 lines and a dual remote filter. My system takes 12 quarts. That's a lot of oil.

Enclose a picture on the fans and radiator. I have no picture on the oli cooler. Typical that I just installed a new sandwich adaptor from Mocal with the lower thermostat...

Thank´s so far
Anders

I totally agree with PanteraDoug; 90-100C (194-212F) is just fine, it's not overheating at all.

quote:

Originally posted by SF:
Radiator is ok and no leaks. Question to you that have Fontana installed what radiator do you have?

Anders

Forgott to mention that I have an oil cooler too,
temp in oilpan ca 90-100 celcius during high way speed but I have to run an electric fan now and then that is mounted behind the oil cooler

I have a 9.2 deck Fontana block with CHI 3V heads, CHI single plane air gap intake manifold and F.A.S.T XFI 2.0 fuel injection. It is a .060 bore with a 3.75 stroke, which comes out to 388 cubic inches. My engine actually was up to 200 degrees at 75 mph a few weeks ago on my way home from San Diego. The outside air temperature was about 110 degrees. At temperatures below 100 degrees the engine will operate at about 180 to 190 degrees, with a 180 degree thermostat. I have a remote thermostat housing, however I am running the water directly to the radiator and have the swirl tank on the low pressure side of the system. This method eliminates the restriction that the swirl tank causes. I have a three pass aluminum lay down radiator with two fans on the back that are shrouded. I also have a Laminova oil cooler which is on the outlet side of the radiator.

Cooling issues come down to low speed high temperatures being an air flow problem and high speed cooling issues being a water flow problem.

All
This is the cooling system lay out on my car, If I
understand JFFR right we have the same lay out!?

1 Water outlet thruogh a termostat
2 Water pump inlet
3 Tank, overflow, low pressuire

Anders

quote:

Originally posted by SF:
All
This is the cooling system lay out on my car, If I
understand JFFR right we have the same lay out!?

1 Water outlet thruogh a termostat
2 Water pump inlet
3 Tank, overflow, low pressuire

Anders

I can't attach a drawing, but my layout is a little different. The bottom of my surge tank outlet goes to a "T" fitting on the heater hose suction of the water pump. The top of the surge tank, which was the original design water inlet, now is a vent line that comes from the top outlet side of the radiator. It is a small line that runs under the car along side the main water tubes. This same system design was used for many years on my car when I had a Cleveland engine and it helped with cooling issues.

SF, the consensus seems to be that your cooling is fine? Regardless, I doubt it has to do with engine adjustment. That said, your timing sounds off to me

quote:

Adjustment done on fuel and ignition. 2 degrees initial advance running very smooth,800 rpm, starts easy. 38 - 40 total advance. With low inital advance there is moore throttle angle (individual throttle bodies).

2 degrees, I have 16 degrees initial (no vacuum), I think you lose a lot of power and probably some throttle response. No wonder you have to open up throttle a little more. At the other end I end at 32 degrees, simply as a precaution to keep my engine alive.
Your curve could be losing power and risking your engine's life, just my $0.02...

quote:

Originally posted by No Quarter:
SF, the consensus seems to be that your cooling is fine? Regardless, I doubt it has to do with engine adjustment. That said, your timing sounds off to me

quote:

Adjustment done on fuel and ignition. 2 degrees initial advance running very smooth,800 rpm, starts easy. 38 - 40 total advance. With low inital advance there is moore throttle angle (individual throttle bodies).

2 degrees, I have 16 degrees initial (no vacuum), I think you lose a lot of power and probably some throttle response. No wonder you have to open up throttle a little more. At the other end I end at 32 degrees, simply as a precaution to keep my engine alive.
Your curve could be losing power and risking your engine's life, just my $0.02...

I agree. 14 degrees initial should be the minimum. Total could be higher, 34-35. I am set at 16 initial and 36 total with a vacuum advance.

It is the rate at which you get to full advance now that you will be experimenting with. Depends on the gas.

More iginition advance increases the cylinder pressure. The octane of the gas is what resists igniting without spark. That's the point you are trying to find.

Engine will run cooler with more advance rather that less.

2 degrees is not where you want to wind up with this engine.

You may wind up with a higher idle rpm as a result. Let that go where it wants to be.

From cooling issue to ignition advance
This was interesting with many thoughts. Remember that I´m running a distributor less full programmable ignition system, maybe I'm wrong here but with this the advance curve could be low at idle and higher below and above idle that will prevent from staling. Hmm should I follow your advice or the programmer???

Thank you for your interest
Anders

The ignition advance is something that needs to be experimented with to determine the best results.
You can not sit behind a computer and determine that.

Even the 289 Ford, with the Windor heads and the solid lifter, little high performance camshaft, likes 12 to 14 degrees initial advance.

The Cleveland series heads, more.

Stock the Boss 302 setting is 16.

Do what you want but I can guaranty my Pantera is a lot faster than your programmers computer is.

Any one knows if I should use the bypass hose between water pump and thermostatic house, still running warm. Has any one a larger water pump pully fitted and have positive experience of that?
Anders

There is a thread on the larger (I can't remember if it is referred to as an underdrive or an overdrive) water pump pulley.

Using good experimental procedure it was shown to bring water temperatures down as compared to the stock pulley.

IIRC jb1490 did the demonstration, among others.

Page 3 - Test Results

I have one, but my car didn't have cooling problems before, and the larger pulley is just one of many features to my cooling system, so I can not say that it has given me amazing results. I believe as a part of a well designed cooling system implementation it gives me margin on my system.

OBTW - I live in Tucson AZ, and it was pretty hot here at the end of the summer when I got my car back on the road.

Rocky

Follow up!

Problem solved (knock on...)

Bad soldered baffle caused bypassing in the tank.

New core, tanks and a good solded baffle.

Running for 2 years now, still good.

Thank you all for good advices!