"Correct" t-stat

Oh, boy! This will be interesting.

Mine runs fine w/ a 195 Cleveland specific 'stat.

YMMV

A 195 was discussed as well.

I HOPE it will be "interesting".

So, to start the "interest", the 195 may have been in there as a ploy to satisfy emissions in California. Higher combustion chamber temps (within reason) = some lower emissions.

Great googley goo, I do love Google. Look what I found !!! http://www.351c.net/parts/clev...per-351c-thermostat/

And then there is THIS from this site ... http://pantera.infopop.cc/eve/...0045562/m/5241069426

The car came stock with a 192-195, because that is what Ford assembled it with.

The L models are less susceptible to over heating for a number of reasons.

People get nervous with the car because of it's reputation of the early carts running hot.

In inquiring about this with Hall, he said just put a 160 in the car. I agree. Running a 192 isn't going to boil the moisture out of the oil because water doesn't boil at 192.

Therefore the argument that 160 is too cold holds no credibility as far as I am concerned for that reason. 160 is safer and gives you some degree of error with these cars.

Don't forget that you have 16 extra feet of plumbing in this car to contend with and it is possible for the engine to be hot and by the time the coolant gets to the radiator, it's too late.

I run the 160 thermostat and the car shows about 190 water temp on the gauge. To me that's a 30 degree difference.

How much is 192 plus 30.

With the original stock iron intake manifold there will be no warming up problems with the 160. With aluminum in the winter, that is an entirely different story.

The carb will begin to ice up at about 40 degrees with an aluminum intake regardless whether you have the heat riser blocked or not. No thermostat will help that.

However, I am old enough to remember and wise enough to consider that a 160 was once shown in the Ford Service manual as a "summer" t-stat, and a 192 as a winter...and you were supposed to change them annually.

An interesting article:

http://www.carnut.com/ramblin/cool3.html

Good article but as it suggests the importance is to get the engine to operate within a certain temperature range.

With a 160 thermostat the Pantera does not operate at 160, it operates at around 190.

It could also be that depending on the variables in your system, it will operate at a different temperature.

If you are concerned with wear and tear because of too low of an operating temperature, be realistic here. How many miles a year are you going to put on it per year.

In very few instances now are these cars going to see 30,000 miles a year.

What is the average now. 3,000. 1,500. What.

quote:

With a 160 thermostat the Pantera does not operate at 160, it operates at around 190.

Doug,

In your statement above:

1. Where are you measuring the temp?

2. What are you using to measure the temp?

3. What is the ambient temp?

4. What is the driving status (highway; stop and go; heavy traffic)?

5. Is the engine stock (relatively) or modified?

If you are highway driving in cold weather with the 160, you will see 158-160 as measured at the front of the engine block (mechanical 270* sweep gauge...old school Stewart Warner ).

John

Measuring it off of the dash gauge (vdo), with the sensor in the engine block.

Engine is not stock. Aluminum heads. Solid lifter cam. Weber IDA carbs. Stock radiator.
10 qt oil pan (12 qt system). Oil cooler. Mobil 1 synthetic oil. Weiand water pump (modified to add bypass hole).

Car doesn't see cold weather. Doubtful if it sees anything even in the 50's.By the same token I don't come out of my freezer over 89. So it doesn't see that either.

The only way it sees "traffic" is if I put it on a trailer and drag it around that way.

It does not stay out long. I have a 5 mile interstate loop. About 5 minutes and I'm back. I do have to wait for one light. I can't admit to only a couple of minutes to the loop.

Someone may be listening and use a calculator. Amazing how 110 in third is nothing.

You are correct about the "L" models having less cooling issues.

My 73 is stock except for a 650 Holley DP, Performer intake, Unilite Distributor & MSD 6A. Still running the stock untouched 40 year old radiator and original water pump.

With an 180 thermostat, I run 183-187 degrees whether its stop and go or on the highway if the outside temp is 90'ish or below. Last year we had some 100+ degree temps and I took it out to try and get it as hot as I possibly could. The max it hit was 208 in some VERY heavy stop and go traffic for about 5 miles with the A/C going full blast. When it's colder out, say 60 degrees or below, the temp maxes out at 160-165 degrees.

All verified via an infrared temperature reader.

quote:

The only way it sees "traffic" is if I put it on a trailer and drag it around that way.

It does not stay out long. I have a 5 mile interstate loop. About 5 minutes and I'm back. I do have to wait for one light. I can't admit to only a couple of minutes to the loop.

Hmmm. Sound like the system never really gets warmed up and stabilized. You say that you only drive it 5 miles. Is that 5 miles per year??

In cool weather, with a modified stock '71 radiator, and with the stock (never rebuilt) '71 engine (11:1 advertised, ~10.1:1 actual), the temp runs +/- a couple of degrees of t-stat rating.

Once the ambient temp rises above the t-stat rating, I would typically see coolant temps running about 90 to 100 degrees above the ambient air temp, depending on which of the three t-stat ratings I was using (experimenting with) at the time. The max that I would typically get on a 95 degree day in very heavy stop-and-crawl traffic, with the A/C on, was 208 degrees, although twice I did see 212 degrees (not sure what that was about). It's interesting that 1973 Pantera also sees a max of 208 degrees.

Driving with the A/C on at 75 for several hours through 107 degree desert temps, I only saw 195-200 degrees coolant temp. This was with a 180 degree t-stat.

YMMV

John

Sticky #2 of this forum (Engines and Engine Systems) has a long post by a notorious author of long posts, about the cooling system.

If you change the temperature rating of the thermostat, you should change the fan controlling temperature switches too. Its a package deal. This applies to any car having thermostatically controlled electric radiator fans, the Pantera's factory switches were "supposedly" set up for 192 degrees F.



-G

John that's basically what you are discribing with my 347 in my Shelby. It will top out around 210 in traffic with the a/c on.

This is with the original 2 core radiator.

I have a 3 core for it that keeps it about 10 degrees cooler under the same conditions.

I don't like temps showing on the gauges over 200.

When my SHO says hot and is at the top it is around 240. You can't get the air conditioning cool enough to stop me from sweating then.

I guess we all drive for pleasure differently.

I find no pleasure in driving anything in traffic. I'd rather be home watching a ball game or working on something.

quote:

I find no pleasure in driving anything in traffic.

I don't either, but it's something that I have to tolerate in order to get to the open road or the to the mountains. I choose to have my Pantera able to handle those "negative" times.

John

I don't care for traffic myself, but sometimes around here it's a necessary evil to get to the really great roads in the Smoky Mountains.

I don't take mine out unless I can put at least 15-20 miles on it to get everything up to proper temperature and burn off any moisture/acids.

The result is that 95% of my car still utilizes the original 40 year old factory components down to the original headers and mufflers which are still in great shape.

quote:

The result is that 95% of my car still utilizes the original 40 year old factory components down to the original headers and mufflers which are still in great shape.

My original mufflers were "plugged" by the late 70's. I had about 85k on the clock at that time.

John

Well, replaced the 160 with a 180 (both "correct" style). Still not getting north of 165, but it's only 72 today. Guess that's not a BAD thing.