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What a shame...

The flares are nice, and the rear end isn't too bad, the targa idea is novel (if you like targas), but that Lambo nose has got to go! Talk about an identity crisis!

I would think the owner could have bought a Lambo for what he'll have into this car before it's done.
Is our beloved Pantera becoming the cheap exotic that is treated bad?

Earlier it was the E-type that was the cheap exotic. I remember movies from the 70s and beyond, a Colombo show, Herbie, Convoy,several others, as soon as you saw an E-type (which I loved back then) you knew it was going to be wrecked. It was the half price exotic sportscar that the film producers could afford to wreck. In Herbie there's a scene where Herbie gets jealous of (IIRC) a red Ferrari, and next scene Herbie has smashed the car by running into it from all sides. But it was obviously an E-type that had been wrecked, not a Ferrari.

I know Panteras are not wrecked for fun, but they're clearly the starting point for many odd projects, that I doubt a Lambo or a Ferrari would be. To each his own, money talks etc., but I've never seen such a project and thought it was better than Tom Tjaarda's idea...

To me it's simple:
    If you want a Ford GT, buy a Ford GT
    If you want a Shelby, buy a Shelby
    If you want a Lambo, buy a Lambo
    If you want an Audi R8, buy an Audi R8
Not a total loss
I agree that the lambo lines on the nose does not do the car justice. I think something good could come from the pointier hood and reworking the nose from there.
I like the side scoops on the rockers and the wide body mods.
Don't shoot me, but I actually like the Shelby tail lights. I would loose the Isis logo and the bumpers. Smooth out the tail and I like the exhaust screens but probably work them a little higher into the tail of the car.
Everybody has their own "line in the sand". I have never felt bad about cutting into a rusty or wrecked car and doing what ever mods I wanted. If the car is clean, for me, that is a guilt that is hard to shake. Still feel bad about a 65 Corvair that I cut into when I was 18.
I just see all of those welds that need to be ground down and know some of them will hole thorough and need to be done again.

This car is a mountain of work to finish.

A targa is a nice car but it requires a lot of chassis modification that this car does not have.

I actually like the rear tailights but then again I have a 67 GT500 so what would you expect?

I could do without the front modification.

The original lines of the Pantera are so pure and clean that it is very difficult to do anything to the car that is a plus.

As refered to in the "Ultimate Cars" book, it is an ulimate all by itself. Leave it alone.

As far as the current Ford GT's go, it is unique car all unto itself.

Making a Pantera into a Ford GT look alike makes no sense.

These people who are so inclined would be better off with a Fiberfab kit.

I still say the problem is that people get these cars too cheaply. That seems to give people a license to butcher them up like a victim of a 15 year old with a JC Whitney catalog? Where's the bobble head poodle in the window and the fuzzy dice?
I'm not an expert welder by any stretch but I believe one of the reasons why the weld is so high is due to a lack of heat. When doing sheet metal and panel work you want the least amount of heat as possible. As you can see each tack weld is done individually and separately, again to reduce the heat generated. IMO the welds look fine in the place they are.

As for trying to make an already great looking car look like another is beyond me. However it is that "pushing the envelope" that has bought about great advances in the world in general so I guess I will just look on in disbelief.
I love custom jobs on all kinds of cars, but yes deviating too much can start to look odd. For instance I am looking at converting an MBZ SL56 into a black series car with the big fenders. And if you look on line for those conversions, there are various types of fender kits (some that stick to the true lines of the car and others that are way out there with gills, etc.). To me, deviating too much starts to look like a "cheap kit car" and I don't favor that look; however for others they love the more drastic modifications. Its to each his own, and fun to see opinions. Such things are like a piece of art on the wall, some gaze endlessly at the beauty and some run for the barf bag.
I prefer the original, but.

You can never tell where something like this ends up. A friend of mine took several Alfa Romeo Sprint Speciali's (Not sure on the spelling.), and cut them up, lowered them, widened them, eventually lengthened them and raced them. He was pretty roundly criticized within the Alfa community for destroying somewhat rare cars, as he tells it.

Eventually, he just started making his own version, the Alfa Romeo SSZ Stradale. He sold them as roller kit cars for both road and track uses. Here's some info on them: Alfa Romeo SSZ

Just this past year, someone started making a knockoff, essentially a kit car of a kit car.

Ya just never know...

Edit: I should add a link to Tom's Motorama museum . He's got tons of cool stuff there: 1 of 2 1952 Alfa Disco Volante prototype cars, an uncut Devin body (maybe the last in the world), and Elvira @ approx. 2100# & 1000 hp (last car on the SSZ link) which Tom describes as 1/2 cool and sexy and 1/2 scary.
The problem I see with many deeply modified cars (im talking about all custom cars not just the Pantera) many of the owners think that they have design talent when if fact they couldnt tastefully design their way out of a paper bag. It takes many years of experience and a deep study in proportions to get extensive body modifications to be right. A guy like Chip Foose for example didnt just wake up one day and decide to design cars. The vendor working on this car i'm sure is just following orders of the owner. Neither seem to have any design talent as far as I can see.
Funny how the bumper has an indent for the license plate on top, but the license plate is below.

To be honest, totally objective, I think it looks pretty good, one of the better ones. But still, it should not have been done. Trying to make a car look like another car is just roll on floor And it goes the other way as well, the Fiero trying to look like a Pantera is IMHO equally roll on floor

Please don't show any more examples... Wink
In September of 2011 I happened to be in California.

I was lucky enough to stop by Pantera International for a bit and see all of their cars. In the back of their shop I ran across a Pantera that was being made into an Audi R8 (this car was mentioned earlier in this post).

I was shocked that someone would go to so much trouble and expense to make a Pantera look like an Audi. Pantera International has some very talented fabricators working for them, but personally I would have just bought a used or wrecked R8 and started with that. To each his own I guess.

I always wondered if this project ever was finished or if it is still in the shape it was when I was there in 2011.

Devin

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I can´t be quiet anymore. That Lambo front I could still live with, as other parts of that car still had some taste in them. Just the front felt like too clearly too much of a copy. This R8 copy is just unbelievable, I don´t understand anything of the logic behind this "custom". To change a De Tomaso into an Audi copy... perkele. I would even imagine it would be frustrating for the workers building this car to end up doing butcher´s work like this.
Holy cow!

Why is it, that everyone sees Pantera as their dream platform to do these things. I appreciate pro-touring is in, but if you want modern Audi, or any other modern looking car, why not save up and buy one?
I had someone I don't know comment on my -71 Pantera that you should black out the chrome, paint it gunmetal grey and use those matte black big diameter wheels like people use with new Lambos and Audis.

I just told him I got chrome bumper car because I like it that way. I like the vintage look with chrome trim. If I paint it something else, I'll paint it metalflake Gold and hang a disco ball to the mirror.

-Janne
I agree

Just out of curiosity, how is such a car to live with. Must be quite heavy with double skin, or is all the inner skin cut out later? Wonder how they get simple things like windows to roll up and down, door locks. And it must be a rust trap.

Add on top that, what people may think of the owner driving a car like that.
Last edited by George P
Perhaps it would be more accurate to say it "stood" for, at one time — back when PIM and PI were related, which hasn't been the case for years since our esteemed George took over PI.

Indeed, I don't think that PIM is even under the same ownership it was back when PI and PIM were both owned by Dave and Linda Adler, but I'm not 100% sure of that.
Pantera International is a car club founded in 1973 by Fred Matsumoto, June Tuey and John Chung. It is incorporated in the state of California, the corporate charter limits the activity of Pantera International to the activities of a car club. Eveline Blanchette ran Pantera International from 1975 to 1991, the Adlers ran the club from 1991 to 2006.

PI Motorsports is a retail auto repair and parts business founded in 1996 and co-owned by the Adlers and the Sackets. It is a completely separate business entity from the car club. Just as Mind Train (Fred Matsumoto's business) was a separate business entity from the car club.

PI Motorsports was founded near the time when Kjell Qvale bought out DeTomaso's interest in the joint project called the Bigua (i.e. the Qvale Mangusta). Mr. Qvale was threatening to sue people and businesses for the use of certain words associated with DeTomaso automobiles. This rattled Dave enough, that when they were naming the new auto repair business he felt there may be future legal problems in using the word Pantera in the name of a new business.

So the "PI" in PI Motorpsorts was intended to give the impression it stood for Pantera International, because Dave and Linda were the officers of Pantera International at the time PI Motorsports was founded. At that time they had no intentions of ever relinquishing control of the club, they hoped both businesses would remain within the control of their family for a long time. Of course that's not how things panned out.

The truth is "PI" is not an acronym, its not an abbreviation nor are they initials. The business' full name is simply PI Motorsports, and always has been. It has never been called Pantera International Motorsports, but the Adlers hoped everyone would make that assumption.

In 2006 the Adler's stepped down from their posts in the car club. Since then there has been no connection between Pantera International and PI Motorsports, except in the friendship and goodwill between the Adlers, the Sackets and my family.

-G
George, sincerely thanks for the history/background. I love my Pantera and knowing a little bit more about this forum and the De Tomaso extended history is worth while.

However I do have to point out that in my view, I just don't see how it's in the best interests of PI Motorsport, who by mistake or perception or easy to come to assumption (which is easy to make when anyone goes on their web site or shops online are linked to the brand), to be involved with such a severe modification of a pantera which at the very least within this forum has a great following and fan base.

Just about any Pantera sized coupe or smaller could be "filled" out and modified to look like something else. Why modify a Pantera beyond recognition.

Just because you can doesn't mean you should. From here it just feels like someone is pissing all over the alter of a church - our little Pantera church Smiler - if that makes any sense.

PS: Tequila may have influenced the rant, but not the sentiment.
I've enjoyed everyone's comments. On the subject of modification, opinions amongst Pantera owners have always varied regarding how far is too far. An extremely customized Pantera like this one is obviously going to be too far for a greater number of people. My opinion of modification has grown more conservative as I've aged.

On the subject of tequila, I wish I were there to help you knock down a bottle or two.

-G
I enjoyed reading the history and origin of the Pantera International car club and PI Motorsports. Very enlightening and informative. Just a great read. One thing I've noticed, when George explains something, he always explains himself with great clarity and detail, and has this uncanny knack for making the story interesting.

As for Lui's comments, I happen to agree that the Pantera at PI Motorsports was so severely modified that it is almost offensive. In my view its painful to see a Pantera altered to that extent. But I don't blame the Adler's or the Sackett's for carrying out what the customer requested. If a customer comes in with a load of money and wants to modify their Pantera, its not for PI Motorsports to judge. PI Motorsports, like any other business enterprise, is in business to make a profit. That heavily modified Pantera helps pay the bills and keep PI Motorsports in business. While I'll bet that the owners of PI Motorsports in their private moments shake their head in horror at the monstrosity that the customer requested they create, on the other hand I am sure they are grateful for the business.

What are you going to do, some people have better taste than others.

David #9465
I agree with alot of what has been said. I also dont like the mods done on either the yellow car or the Audi replica.
The problem is that its always subjective. Obviously the customer wants their Pantera that way so they are having it done.As a shop owner I would not do the work they are having done, prophet or no you will be always tied to that car. They should have patted the customer on the back and said (customer name here)"**** I see what you want to do here but it will look like ass and you should re think it a little bit." (Apologies to the mod if that statement was too harsh)
Saying the design is bad but the workmanship is good is like saying "She's got a great personality."
At the end of the day it doesn't look good no matter how nice the welds are.Workmanship alone can not save a bad design or concept

There are a few modded cars on here that fall under the great talent /poor design category.
Very few can pull it off, one exception in my opinion is Macman. His car is brilliant . Well designed and well executed.

I also cringe when I hear "Pantera based custom"
If you dont want a Pantera then why did you buy a Pantera? Confused

Tangent: Lambo doors should only be on a Lambo and 24 inch wheels dont belong on any car.

I am done now. Cool
Dr. Frankenstein slowly raised his eyebrows starring into space he contemplates , the next step is to cut the roof off, flip it around, turn the ZF upside down and it will be a front wheel drive put a coffin (Cord) hood on what now will be the front, run the exhaust out the back through the corner grills, have the brake lights pop-up when you apply them,and just a couple more small revisions, a rumble seat in the old front trunk an air bagged eight inch lift kit, and duel propellers in what was the front grill.
FRANKENSTEIN MEETS WATER WORLD.
quote:
Originally posted by Wade:
Posted by Wade:
I agree with 73pantera. There are several Pantera concept drawings with visionary designs that would give the owner a unique vehicle that may also have an opportunity for investment value down the road. Some of these designs have had some distribution in the public domain and may therefore capture the imagine of today's youth.

I know Evans has his own version that he would like to build if someone brought their checkbook.

I'm confident that an exercise like that would have wider support of the Pantera community and that would also support resale.

Although, I suppose if you have enough money to throw away....
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