I just bought a truckload of used pantera parts and amongst them I found a Ford Buddy Bar D1ZX-9425-DA aluminum intake manifold.

As I've been able to figure out, this was an over the counter upgrade manifold sold by Ford. It came of a very early pantera, either 1395 or 1508.

Question is, what Holley Carb. would have been sold with it back then? Amongst the parts there is also a few carburators including an early Holly vac. secondary.

Does anybody know the specs of the carburators sold by Ford with the manifold back then - and how do I identify the one I have.

I read that some of the earliest euro panteras came from Detomaso with aluminum manifolds and Holley carb. Would this have been the manifold used? #1395 was a euro marked car, so it might have been from this car the manifold was pulled.


I'm Building a close to original 351C for my pushbutton, and thought it would be cool with a period correct manifold and carburator.
Original Post
It wasn't sold with a carb. A carb was separate to your choice.

If yours is for the standard holley bolt pattern, since the manifold was intended for racing I would think that the R-4781, aka 850 double pumper would be the one to use?

I know that manifold was also available to use the Holley Dominator as well. Check the bolt pattern to verify what you have.
quote:

Originally posted by Push1267:

... I read that some of the earliest euro panteras came from Detomaso with aluminum manifolds and Holley carb. Would this have been the manifold used ...



Yes some of the pushbutton Panteras were equipped with the Ford dual plane aluminum manifold and a Holley carburetor, the manifold you have is the one used by De Tomaso. Its the only aluminum dual plane manifold with a Holley carburetor base Ford manufactured.

quote:

Originally posted by Push1267:

... Question is, what Holley Carb. would have been sold with it back then? Amongst the parts there is also a few carburators including an early Holly vac. secondary ...



Ford sold the manifold by itself and left it to the buyer to choose a carb. It is true Ford sold several Holley carbs over the counter, but no specific carb was paired with the 351C manifold. Ford's recommendation for the 351C was a 780 cfm vacuum secondary or an 850 cfm mechanical secondary (double pumper). However, De Tomaso installed a 600 cfm vacuum secondary carb sourced from the aftermarket, not Ford. The early vacuum secondary carb in your stock of parts is most likely the correct one. I believe it was a list 1850, but I'm not positive of that number.

quote:

Originally posted by Push1267:

... Does anybody know the specs of the carburators sold by Ford with the manifold back then - and how do I identify the one I have ...



I have a couple of different catalogs listing Holley jetting specs. If you can provide the "list number" I may be able to provide the original Holley jetting specs. The list number is stamped on the choke horn.

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My car was always a Colorado car. When I got it it had a Torker manifold and a 600 cfm Holley. I was told by a guy that worked for Johnny Haas L/M that all of the Panteras were sent out for modifications to run at altitude. Most of the Panteras sold in Denver were sold at this dealer. Mine was.

The following photo is of the plackard that was attached to both valve covers. Dennis at Pantera performance would know. Pantera Specialties was the original name of Pantera Performance before Dennis got it. Back in the late 70's it was owned by a guy named O'Brien. I had a ride in his 427 cid Pantera. It was fast.

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Kenz and Leslie was a Ford/LM dealer in Denver a long time ago. I knew Ron Leslie when I went to CU in the late 50's (I know .. I'm old). They were speed specialists .. the Kenz/Leslie Special was a multi-engined Bonneville car .. might have held the top speed record for a while. I think I bought some Pantera stuff from them waaaay back when.
quote:
I have a couple of different catalogs listing Holley jetting specs. If you can provide the "list number" I may be able to provide the original Holley jetting specs. The list number is stamped on the choke horn.


Thanks for the info. The carb is list 3310-3 with a date code 2699. Probably a 1979 carb or 1989, depending on for how long the -3 was made.

But it kind of rules the carb. out as the original unless Ford keep selling the manifolds long after the 351C had disapeared?
I would think that it very likely would be the 70 Boss 302 carb. It's a vacuum secondary 780cfm.

The 70 428cj carb will work too. It's a vaccum secondary 735.
There were service versions of both and as such are easy installations with the bolt on Pantera throttle adapter bracket.

If you are going to look for one, look for a service version. The original assembly line versions are going to be very expensive now.
I have sold all of my Holleys so I can't help now. I did have all of them at one time.

The 3310-3 is actually a "Universal" aftermarket version (probably early 1980's dated) of the original Chevy Z28 Camaro 780cfm.

It's very similar to the Boss 302 carb. You can probably find a mid 70's dated 3310 or 3310-1AAS one on Ebay if you are patient for between $100 and $150.

There are lots of people that can restore them cosmetically now including re-dying the gold color on the outside and installing new gold cad screws and parts. That shouldn't be a problem.

The vacuum secondary Holley carbs are going to have a MUCH cleaner idle on them then the mechanical secondary "double pump" carbs. Those are calibrated with a heavy idle from Holley since they are intended to be used with "race car" type headers (big primary tubes) which tend to lean the mixture out at the "starting line" when you suddenly WOT the car.

The idle will smart you eyes it's so heavy and you need to know how to go into the idle circuit internally to fix that. I would say also, it is not easy to do.

Any older 3310 is a good choice to work with since it will have period correct looking parts on it and things like new throttle plates are still serviced by Holley. You could in fact build your own once you find the main body with a date code that you think fits.

The few Holley carbs that I have seen on Panteras that were installed by Detomaso are "universal", "Speed Shop" aftermarket carbs but those were installed AFTER the program with Ford ended.

What they did during the program is unpredictable since they would have been in the "Authorized Ford Service Parts" program since that is how Ford paid the dealers by depositing money in their "Parts Account".
quote:
The 70 428cj carb will work too. It's a vaccum secondary 735. There were service versions of both and as such are easy installations with the bolt on Pantera throttle adapter bracket.



I think the carb that Doug is talking about here is the Holley List Number 4306. It's a 4150 Series (Dual Metering Blocks).

My Previous Owner had installed one on my car. There are some discussions you can find about it here by searching.

Oops! Maybe it's the List 4609. And the 4609-1 is a Racing Replacement.

Rocky

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Either one of those will work nicely.

If you look for the 428cj carb, there are two versions. One for automatic trans and one for 4 speed manual.

I think they have different list numbers from Holley but the difference is that the one for the automatic has additional linkage on the throttle lever for the automatic trans kick down rod.

Either will work on the Pantera very well. If you find the one for the automatic trans take it, just leave the additional linkage on it OR disassemble the throttle lever from the throttle plate and just slide it off.

If you are running basically the stock 351cj cam then the 428 carb is better for you.

That setup won't be able to take advantage of the larger secondaries that the Boss 302 carb has. That engine used solid lifters and the stock cam is a little hotter than the 351cj hydraulic cam and has more 6000 rpm and up capability.

The 351cj should not be turned over 6000 rpm's unless you do things like put the Boss balancer on it, better valve springs, better non-self destructing valves, etc.

The Boss 302 carb is also going to come with a manual choke vs the automatic choke on the 428cj.

If you run the automatic choke, you are going to need the correct automatic choke thermostat. They are marked on the face.

I think they are marked C or H? Maybe A or B too? I don't remember that at the moment.

Maybe George has that info in his data banks?

Hey George?
quote:

Originally posted by PanteraDoug:

... I would think that it very likely would be the 70 Boss 302 carb. It's a vacuum secondary 780cfm ...




quote:

Originally posted by George P:

... De Tomaso installed a 600 cfm vacuum secondary carb sourced from the aftermarket, not Ford. ... I believe it was a list 1850, but I'm not positive of that number ...



Roll Eyes

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