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Hi, Gunner. 35 GPM is about half the water flow a road car needs to stay cool. Many of the electric water pumps are meant for drag racing where they only need to deal with short runs, not hours on the road at high load. It would work as a supplemental pump to a stocker, but that's not quite what you're looking for.

There are a few electrics that have far higher flow (and price), but I've only seen one (by Mezeir) on a near-stock Pantera that drove from LA to 'Vegas successfully. Engine temp rose to 220 at one point and this was NOT a high-output motor, but he made the 400 mile round trip without damage. Some trimming was needed to the steel access door frame, as I remember.

If you're like to explore the short pump thing further and are handy, Ford Motorsports sells a so-called 'short water pump' for 351-W street rod use. With a small amount of hand work, that particular pump can be adapted to a 351-C block and works well. Remember, with this pump you will need a shallow pump pulley, which Ford has discontinued. Pulleys are not hard to make from scratch, and other companies such as Snow-White in CA sell shallow pulleys as well that may fit. If you make your own, you get to change pulley ratios for more water flow at one end or the other of the rev-range.

Next (or alternatively), you can move the whole powertrain backwards about 3/4" by using the second set of motormount bolt-holes provided (or by swapping the upper halves side-to-side). Once done, the rearmost ZF mount-tabs must be bent backward into a shallow 'S' by 3/4" and an extra 3/4" thick spacer installed on both ZF mount sides. This only works for later ZF mounts, not the early single-point mount. Do not get greedy with backward-movements; move more than about 3/4" and the step in the oil pan hits the under-engine crossmember, causing more trouble.

If both of the above are done, the firewall blister in the steel access door and upholstery goes completely away, leaving a flat firewall. In various past POCA Newsletters, I documented all this as done on our '72-L model. Works fine on the street.
A 35GPM electric water pump is insufficient???!!!...REALLY???!!...that's 1 gallon every 2 seconds!!!.

Can a Pantera radiator, even an upgraded one flow 1 gallon of water EVERY 2 seconds??!!...I say...NO WAY!!!, and actually too MUCH flow is counter-productive...

As an experiment to prove my point...get a 1 gallon bucket, take your home's garden hose, turn UP the water pressure FULL BLAST & see if you can FILL UP the 1 gallon bucket in 2 seconds...NOT EVEN CLOSE!!!...Mark




There are some cautions to be observed in increasing coolant flow rate, however. Going too far may result in aeration and foaming of the coolant, possible damage to the radiator by overpressure, cavitation of the pump, due to excessive pressure drop through the radiator, and erosion of the radiator tubes. The ideal coolant flow rate is one that will provide optimum coolant flow velocity through the radiator tubes in the range of 6 to 8 feet per second. Flow velocities above 10 feet per second should be avoided.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by forestg:
Note that the 35 GPM is at zero pressure. I do not know of anyone that has measured the head loss through the pantera system. I would look at using the 55 GPM pump. The actual flow will be controlled by the head loss through all the tubing, radiator, engine, thermostat etc.[/QUOTE

I DON't believe the Pantera system is able to flow 35GPM, so WHY install a 55GPM pump?...Mark
According to Stewart Components, a "typical" engine flows 100 GPM of coolant! That sounds like a lot of coolant to me but Stewart Components know what they're talking about. Most NASCAR teams use their water pumps.

They make a 55 GPM electric pump; however, they state it's only suitable to be used as a booster pump; not as an engine's primary water pump.
I have successfully used an electric water pump on both the Ultima at 600HP and GT40, with both having similar cooling system to a Pantera. Both are remote 55 gpm pumps by Meziere, available in a number of styles with built in thermostat and two outs (heater circuit) if required.

I will be using an electric pump on my '74 when it is rebuilt.

Julian
quote:
Originally posted by David_Nunn:
According to Stewart Components, a "typical" engine flows 100 GPM of coolant! That sounds like a lot of coolant to me but Stewart Components know what they're talking about. Most NASCAR teams use their water pumps.

They make a 55 GPM electric pump; however, they state it's only suitable to be used as a booster pump; not as an engine's primary water pump.
100 GPM is 1-1/2 gallons per SECOND!!!...

Maybe I'm naive!!...I DON'T see a radiator capable of flowing 1-1/2 gallons per SECOND!!!.
For that matter I don't believe a FULLY OPENED 351 Cleveland thermostat would/could allow 1-1/2 gallons per second!!!...Mark
Gunner,

Another option is the Australian-made Davies Craig electric water pump. I have been using their EWP115 and thermostatic controller. At 30.38 gallons/minute with my 550hp+ Ford Racing Big Block I have experienced no boil overs or high temps. This includes stop and go traffic in 100 degree F ambients, trips over 100 miles at 80+ mph and some high speed running for short bursts. They recently introduced the EWP150 which flows 40 gpm.

I mounted my pump directly behind the radiator (see picture).

The big advantage is that coolant flow rate is not dependant on engine speed. There is no compromise in having adequate flow at idle and not sucking up too much power at high engine speeds. In addition, you can continue to run the pump after the engine shuts down, helping to prevent boil over.

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  • davies_craig
Just some more food for thought.

I am building an LS7 powered Pantera, hardcore street, building it so it can withstand heavy track duty.

In order to move the engine as far forward as I can in my build, I initially opted to run dual 55 GPM remote Meziere pumps. I know a bunch of folks have had success with a single 55gpm Meziere on these style cars (GT-40s, GTMs) even on hot track days. My thoughts were if 1 was good, 2 pumps in parallel was even better.

Well I ended up calling Meziere and talking with their technical support. Even with the twin pumps this was not recommended by the Meziere folks, they said (paraphrasing here) that in their opinion a dual parallel 55 GPM pump set up would be experimental for a 30 minute track day period with a 700hp flywheel car.

Instead they suggested using a WP430 remote operated belt driven pump (originated from a sprint car pump, apparently its pretty well used in the land speed/bonneville realm). This pump puts out just over 100gpm at max rpm, but the real difference is the head pressure it develops. That's what Meziere tech folks really educated me about.

I've attached a flow/pressure pump of the WP430 and below is a link to where some rodders on another board did a test on all of these Remote water pumps to determine the real flow rate/pressure developed (Post 1 thumbnail, just enlarge to view)
http://www.lingenfelter.com/LP...flow-testing-results

After looking at all the data I wanted to stay with a mechanical pump, so I ended up going with the WP430, and a remote 55 GPM Meziere on a bypass line to help with idle/low rpm cruising.

My application does not direct apply to you, but I am a proponent of making sure you're fully educated prior to committing to a mod. So take this with a grain of salt if you like.

FYI: You can fit two 55GPM Remote Meziere pumps side by side, under the front trunk, between and under the front sway bar and steering rack, you will need to make new coolant pipes though.

Thanks,
Dave

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  • Meziere_WP430_Flow_vs_Pressure_Chart
Of course it has been years since I took physics in college, but I believe restrictions in the block, heads, T-stat etc, will restrict flow, therby increasing pressure (if the pump is capable) which directly decreases pump output.

Also, as mentioned above, sending coolant thru much faster reduces heat exchange and lowers cooling capability. It is actually a complicated dance.

The bulk of my experience is with closed cooling in an hi-performance (yes, Ford powered) boat. One of the ways I increased cooling capacity is by increasing the number of passes thru the exchanger (radiator) before returning to the engine. No change in pump needed.
Just my 2 cents.
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