Garth,
That is a great write up!
I can only hope that I have good internals left to work with....but I don't think so.
LOW position gets no "super duper" feels good sensation when you move the switch....sort of vague...if you jiggle and joggle it...then it may come on. HI works just fine.
I'll look thru more boxes of old stuff to see what I can find for old switches! Sounds like possibility could be high that I have some spare bits about!!!
Thanks again!
Steve
Well, Erica lives true to her namesake.......
I fired the car up today, to heat up the system to see if my new heater core and associated connections are sound.
Nope!!! As soon as water started circulating, I could hear water....probably air bubbles then water... but never the less....a mess ensued!
Shut the car off and grabbed the 19mm wrenches to tighten the connector on the heater shut off valve..... No sooner had I given the wrench another couple of flats towards tight, and I see the monkey flyin heater tube pop out of the monkey flyin attaching nut.......!!!!!!!
After I jumped to grab containers to catch the freshly filled engine's water which was now gushing into the cabin.....and dumped them into an antifreeze jug for safe keeping...AND sopped up some out of the carpet and backing...... I removed the nut and found the flared aluminum end of the heater tube cleanly cut off and sitting in the nut......
SO, time to pull the heater box out once again and see if I can get a new flare put on the end of the tube..... Just can't get flare tools at the tube while it is in the car and in the box........
Crap!
Steve
PS Flying monkey thing is reference to Samuel L Jackson in FX's cleaned up version of "Snakes on a Plane"...... Got my own plane of snakes here and her name is Erica!!!!
PSS: Added picture of old and new fittings. Can anyone see a problem? Same mistake is also propagated to the AC side on the expansion valve fitting.....need to contact the manufacturer!
I fired the car up today, to heat up the system to see if my new heater core and associated connections are sound.
Nope!!! As soon as water started circulating, I could hear water....probably air bubbles then water... but never the less....a mess ensued!
Shut the car off and grabbed the 19mm wrenches to tighten the connector on the heater shut off valve..... No sooner had I given the wrench another couple of flats towards tight, and I see the monkey flyin heater tube pop out of the monkey flyin attaching nut.......!!!!!!!
After I jumped to grab containers to catch the freshly filled engine's water which was now gushing into the cabin.....and dumped them into an antifreeze jug for safe keeping...AND sopped up some out of the carpet and backing...... I removed the nut and found the flared aluminum end of the heater tube cleanly cut off and sitting in the nut......
SO, time to pull the heater box out once again and see if I can get a new flare put on the end of the tube..... Just can't get flare tools at the tube while it is in the car and in the box........
Crap!
Steve
PS Flying monkey thing is reference to Samuel L Jackson in FX's cleaned up version of "Snakes on a Plane"...... Got my own plane of snakes here and her name is Erica!!!!
PSS: Added picture of old and new fittings. Can anyone see a problem? Same mistake is also propagated to the AC side on the expansion valve fitting.....need to contact the manufacturer!
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Steve,
It looks to me like they used a compression nut in place of the 45° flare nut. Something to be aware of that I found when I swapped my L model heater control valve for an electronic version is that the fitting is not a standard 3/8" SAE flare with 18TPI threads. It is actually a 3/8" BPPT, British Parallel Pipe Thread, that is 19TPI. It's hard to tell but a thread gauge tells the story. You can't find that flare nut at your local ACE Hardware. I ended up using the original flare nut on the heater core and made a fitting to match on the lathe. Then I relocated the control valve to the engine compartment. Good luck.
Steve
6512
It looks to me like they used a compression nut in place of the 45° flare nut. Something to be aware of that I found when I swapped my L model heater control valve for an electronic version is that the fitting is not a standard 3/8" SAE flare with 18TPI threads. It is actually a 3/8" BPPT, British Parallel Pipe Thread, that is 19TPI. It's hard to tell but a thread gauge tells the story. You can't find that flare nut at your local ACE Hardware. I ended up using the original flare nut on the heater core and made a fitting to match on the lathe. Then I relocated the control valve to the engine compartment. Good luck.
Steve
6512
Steve,
There is a new fan switch for sale on Ebay.
Forest
There is a new fan switch for sale on Ebay.
Forest
Steve,
EDIT: I looked some more into this thread type, and it is a British Standard Pipe Parallel ie straight. (or Tapered if called for.) SO BSPP in what I could find.....probably other acronyms just like for NPT!!!
BUTTTTT, trying to find a tubing nut in BSPP format is proving to be difficult!
I was also trying to find an adapter to go Female BSPP to Male NPTS (straight threads) but no go! Other way around.....no prob. This way supplier could put NPTS nuts on the heater core and use regular shut off valves from US. OR use the adapter and fit to the original heater valve! Which is what I would love to do.
Just like the Italians to use a British water valve on an Italian car sold in the US......(and elsewhere!)
That explains why the danged nut didn't thread onto the valve just quite as nice as it should have for being new parts!!!! I thought I had some aluminum in the threads from previous fitting....and worked on those threads for quite a while with a thread file....cleaning them up!
Hmmmm, don't have 19TPI on my thread gauge either.
Just like Rosanne Rosannadana used to say.....
"It's Always something!"
Thanks for the great info!!!!!
Steve
EDIT: I looked some more into this thread type, and it is a British Standard Pipe Parallel ie straight. (or Tapered if called for.) SO BSPP in what I could find.....probably other acronyms just like for NPT!!!
BUTTTTT, trying to find a tubing nut in BSPP format is proving to be difficult!
I was also trying to find an adapter to go Female BSPP to Male NPTS (straight threads) but no go! Other way around.....no prob. This way supplier could put NPTS nuts on the heater core and use regular shut off valves from US. OR use the adapter and fit to the original heater valve! Which is what I would love to do.
Just like the Italians to use a British water valve on an Italian car sold in the US......(and elsewhere!)
That explains why the danged nut didn't thread onto the valve just quite as nice as it should have for being new parts!!!! I thought I had some aluminum in the threads from previous fitting....and worked on those threads for quite a while with a thread file....cleaning them up!
Hmmmm, don't have 19TPI on my thread gauge either.
Just like Rosanne Rosannadana used to say.....
"It's Always something!"
Thanks for the great info!!!!!
Steve
...Here's the solution that worked for Me, when I Installed a New P.S. pump on a GMC Truck, and the Hose Fitting was Different from the (Removable) Adaptor, on the Original (Old) Pump.
I turned the Two Pieces with the 'Ends' I need to work, on the Lathe to Mate with a .002" Press fit, degreased with Acetone, smeared a thin film of Locktite RED on the opposing surfaces and pressed the Two Parts together on a Hydraulic press. BOOM! An Adaptor. It works, No Leaks!
Be sure to cap the Flare so as to Not Damage it, in the Press.
If this procedure can hold the pressure of a P.S. Pump, it can certainly hold the Pressure of a AC Pump.
Steve, If You do not have access to a Lathe, send Me the Parts with a Clear Blueprint of what You need, and I will Machine, and assemble them for You. At No cost to You, for the 'Cause'.
I turned the Two Pieces with the 'Ends' I need to work, on the Lathe to Mate with a .002" Press fit, degreased with Acetone, smeared a thin film of Locktite RED on the opposing surfaces and pressed the Two Parts together on a Hydraulic press. BOOM! An Adaptor. It works, No Leaks!
Be sure to cap the Flare so as to Not Damage it, in the Press.
If this procedure can hold the pressure of a P.S. Pump, it can certainly hold the Pressure of a AC Pump.
Steve, If You do not have access to a Lathe, send Me the Parts with a Clear Blueprint of what You need, and I will Machine, and assemble them for You. At No cost to You, for the 'Cause'.
Marlin,
This is EXACTLY what I am going to need to do.
The evap core will get an NPS flare nut on it...
Then I found a BPSS female to NPT male AND
a NPT female to NPS flare male. Whew need to cool off....all that sex talk!!!
At the same time need to look more closely at the connection on the AC side. I think that ALSO is likely a damned compression fitting also, and after a few hundred heating and cooling cycles could simply cut right thru that connection as well. If it is a proper nut I will be pleasantly surprised!
Thanks for the offer! I do have a 6" South Bend but it is in bits in my new shop waiting for a bench, power, and reassembly!
In the mean time a have a small lathe that will do the trick for doing exactly what you suggest, although I may solder it.....
Did the same on a PS fitting on a 67 390 Fairlane. Hoses were unobtanium and priced to the moon. Did find an old NOS hose that was mismarked and had the wrong something or other to work for me (probably a 66 hose) but did take two adapters and made one!
I was hoping that a BPSS flare fitting could be located.....but found absolutely nothing on the internet!!!! That would have been too easy.
Would have fed the info back to the vender!
If the vendor does nothing but put a proper flare nut (NPS) on this fitting, we could still properly substitute new US made valves that have the same sort of design.....threaded flare connection and hose..... Whether the rotational control would be retained....different issue.
At the worst, ya cross thread the hell out of the nut and it would hold.....ugh!
Would have fed the info back to the vender!
We'll see how this job works....may not want to get into the adapter business........! Not $$ heavy!
Bad news is that I can't do this job in the car.....
Right now I'm just resting my back after putzing it up real good just putting the box back in the car.......need to work back up to bustin' the evap box back out of the car!!! May be tomorrow.......then take the whole thing apart again.
....find a removable steering wheel fitting could help too!
Stupid $2 part derails a $1000+ job.....
My "lathe" for this job! It's not the size, it's how ya use it!!!
Ciao!
Steve
This is EXACTLY what I am going to need to do.
The evap core will get an NPS flare nut on it...
Then I found a BPSS female to NPT male AND
a NPT female to NPS flare male. Whew need to cool off....all that sex talk!!!
At the same time need to look more closely at the connection on the AC side. I think that ALSO is likely a damned compression fitting also, and after a few hundred heating and cooling cycles could simply cut right thru that connection as well. If it is a proper nut I will be pleasantly surprised!
Thanks for the offer! I do have a 6" South Bend but it is in bits in my new shop waiting for a bench, power, and reassembly!
In the mean time a have a small lathe that will do the trick for doing exactly what you suggest, although I may solder it.....
Did the same on a PS fitting on a 67 390 Fairlane. Hoses were unobtanium and priced to the moon. Did find an old NOS hose that was mismarked and had the wrong something or other to work for me (probably a 66 hose) but did take two adapters and made one!
I was hoping that a BPSS flare fitting could be located.....but found absolutely nothing on the internet!!!! That would have been too easy.
Would have fed the info back to the vender!
If the vendor does nothing but put a proper flare nut (NPS) on this fitting, we could still properly substitute new US made valves that have the same sort of design.....threaded flare connection and hose..... Whether the rotational control would be retained....different issue.
At the worst, ya cross thread the hell out of the nut and it would hold.....ugh!
Would have fed the info back to the vender!
We'll see how this job works....may not want to get into the adapter business........! Not $$ heavy!
Bad news is that I can't do this job in the car.....
Right now I'm just resting my back after putzing it up real good just putting the box back in the car.......need to work back up to bustin' the evap box back out of the car!!! May be tomorrow.......then take the whole thing apart again.
....find a removable steering wheel fitting could help too!
Stupid $2 part derails a $1000+ job.....
My "lathe" for this job! It's not the size, it's how ya use it!!!
Ciao!
Steve
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Unfortunately, this is on a NEW core from vendor....of aluminum.......
I'll try and get the adapter as short as I can get it.....and then shorten the heater tube by some unknown amount....and get the valve back in it's approximate stock location! Lower by a 1/4" wouldn't hurt....easier to get hose on then!
I am of the nature to have my copper core fixed and reinstall....except that while moving it around in the garage the other day, I think I cracked one of the heater tubes! (It already had the AC side broken......!) Can't win here...!
Steve
I'll try and get the adapter as short as I can get it.....and then shorten the heater tube by some unknown amount....and get the valve back in it's approximate stock location! Lower by a 1/4" wouldn't hurt....easier to get hose on then!
I am of the nature to have my copper core fixed and reinstall....except that while moving it around in the garage the other day, I think I cracked one of the heater tubes! (It already had the AC side broken......!) Can't win here...!
Steve
Steve,
If the old core is destined for recycle why not reuse the original flare nuts? Have you contacted any British plumbing suppliers? Sometimes it takes asking for something to find it.
Steve
If the old core is destined for recycle why not reuse the original flare nuts? Have you contacted any British plumbing suppliers? Sometimes it takes asking for something to find it.
Steve
Or, buy an entire used assembly that is on Ebay right now and use what you need and save or recycle the rest.
Steve
Steve
quote:Originally posted by Mangusta:
....find a removable steering wheel fitting could help too!
Ciao!
Steve
Wilkinson has a great one. Here it is on my car.
It makes working under the dash so much easier.
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At this point, reusing the original may be an out to a solution as well.
We'll see once I get it all back on the bench and laid out. Will depend on how much of the new/old tubing can be stretched and still keep the valve close to the original location so that the hose isn't up against the blower and the cable at some obtuse angle to activate the thing!
Thanks all!!!
Steve
We'll see once I get it all back on the bench and laid out. Will depend on how much of the new/old tubing can be stretched and still keep the valve close to the original location so that the hose isn't up against the blower and the cable at some obtuse angle to activate the thing!
Thanks all!!!
Steve
quote:Did the same on a PS fitting on a 67 390 Fairlane. Hoses were unobtanium and priced to the moon. Did find an old NOS hose that was mismarked and had the wrong something or other to work for me (probably a 66 hose) but did take two adapters and made one!
I was hoping that a BPSS flare fitting could be located.....but found absolutely nothing on the internet!!!! That would have been too easy.
Would have fed the info back to the vender!
An excellent local source for AC fittings and/or custom hoses with the fittings you need is Sease's Auto Services & Repair on N. 4th Street in San Jose. I had them fab up some new hoses for my AC system.
Garth,
Yes, intimately familiar with the boyz down there! They helped me with the Goose hoses, and I've visited there a couple of times in the past weeks......but this job is on me I believe......
Erica is on "time out" at the moment. Gonna go move a Cougar down south on the new trailer.....
Thanks!
Steve
Yes, intimately familiar with the boyz down there! They helped me with the Goose hoses, and I've visited there a couple of times in the past weeks......but this job is on me I believe......
Erica is on "time out" at the moment. Gonna go move a Cougar down south on the new trailer.....
Thanks!
Steve
OK, Erica has been on "time out" for being such a Beyonce..... I need a sanity check here cuz I'm going a tad crazy....can't afford to lose more hair!
Whut I done so far....
Repaired Evap/Heater core is back in car, holding 28+ inches of vacuum for several days while I have been trying to get heater core to work.....
Today determined that core has no obstructions, valve is adjusted for full flow capacity (about a 3/8" passage), and my home brew heater line filter is not plugged up already.......
I need a sanity check here......
Heater core is connected as follows....(similar to other post two up the list)....
The open line on the core is connected directly to the back to the pump which should be "sucking" water from the core..... (Left hand tube)
Valved side of core goes back via RH tube and hits my filter and is then connected to the block outlet. This is the pressure side...
Water pump "pumps water" into the block, from radiator, which is heated, then is pumped out the block fitting and forward to the heater valve...into the core...and back out...returning to the water pump. It should be as simple as that.
Pressure side of core is valved connection, suction side is the open connection.
But for me....no love. The two metal hoses up at where they come out of the tunnel are barely warm.....engine is warm enuf to turn both fans on......
I had flushed these lines several times, although had lots of crap in them......seemed clean.
SO, is this something unique to our cars, that the core needs to be bled????? Air bubble issues?????
I would think that with a suction on one side, and pressure on the other, that water would displace air and these lines should be cooking in no time......
What stupid simple thing am I missing?????
Cheers!
Steve
Whut I done so far....
Repaired Evap/Heater core is back in car, holding 28+ inches of vacuum for several days while I have been trying to get heater core to work.....
Today determined that core has no obstructions, valve is adjusted for full flow capacity (about a 3/8" passage), and my home brew heater line filter is not plugged up already.......
I need a sanity check here......
Heater core is connected as follows....(similar to other post two up the list)....
The open line on the core is connected directly to the back to the pump which should be "sucking" water from the core..... (Left hand tube)
Valved side of core goes back via RH tube and hits my filter and is then connected to the block outlet. This is the pressure side...
Water pump "pumps water" into the block, from radiator, which is heated, then is pumped out the block fitting and forward to the heater valve...into the core...and back out...returning to the water pump. It should be as simple as that.
Pressure side of core is valved connection, suction side is the open connection.
But for me....no love. The two metal hoses up at where they come out of the tunnel are barely warm.....engine is warm enuf to turn both fans on......
I had flushed these lines several times, although had lots of crap in them......seemed clean.
SO, is this something unique to our cars, that the core needs to be bled????? Air bubble issues?????
I would think that with a suction on one side, and pressure on the other, that water would displace air and these lines should be cooking in no time......
What stupid simple thing am I missing?????
Cheers!
Steve
Steve I don't know if this is of any help but I got irritated with the fluctuating temperature outlet of my heater when I had it on during cold summer nights etc. Suddenly it was 40°C in the cockpit and 2 minutes later 18°C all depending on engine rpm and available flow for the heater core.
So I installed a dedicated heater pump like we know from all modern cars and it is switched via a micro switch on the cable/valve assembly so when the temp selector on the dash is all the way left the power to the pump is cut and the pump stops. It works quite nice so now we are able to control the temp in the cockpit much better.
BTW the temporary cable tie is now replaced with a proper clamp.
So I installed a dedicated heater pump like we know from all modern cars and it is switched via a micro switch on the cable/valve assembly so when the temp selector on the dash is all the way left the power to the pump is cut and the pump stops. It works quite nice so now we are able to control the temp in the cockpit much better.
BTW the temporary cable tie is now replaced with a proper clamp.
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I think that's an excellent solution. Most of us don't drive the car in the cold though and many Pantera owners are in Southern California where you really don't need a heater.
goodroc,
Very clever!
Can you give us some details of the electric pump you used?
Thanks!
Very clever!
Can you give us some details of the electric pump you used?
Thanks!
David, yes certainly. That pump sit on many cars. The one I used is a Bosch 0392020073 and it is used in Audi, VW, Ford, Porsche, Mercedes etc. The studs were not the same size as my hoses but I used some step down (or step up) straight connectors. But it all depends obviously. I wired it via a relay and took the ground for the relay coil and wired it via a small/micro switch that I attached were the cable from the lever connects to the water valve. It was a bit tricky to get that to sit correctly so it cuts out exactly when the valve is also shut. But I managed eventually. Unfortunately I didn't take any photos of that.
Btw I don't think it is a problem to wire it directly without a relay, I am not sure how much current it draws but not much I think.