I am now convinced that the mirrors on my car are, in fact, stock. Pantera Parts Connection shows a mirror on their web site that appears identical. They call it a "Vitaloni Bravo." After looking around for a while, I have found photos of a couple of other Panteras with this type of mirror, including Richard Barkley's.
I think I may have also found a solution to the looseness problem. I may be able to drill a hole in the plastic between the ball joint and the mirror housing, and run a bolt through. The theory is that by tightening this bolt I can squeeze the joint which should stiffen it. This will have the added advantage of my being able to tighten it again as the cheap plastic ball joint inevitably wears more in the future.
That particular Vitaloni mirror was never oem, but two other Vitaloni mirrors were, the first being the "California" and the second being the "Turbo" (I'm not 100% sure of the name of that second mirror, old age is catchng up with my ability to remember)
Those mirrors were oem on European delivered Panteras from the late seventies until the end of production. (Excluding the Pantera Si, which used a different mirror)
Panteras manufactured during the Ford era were not equipped with Vitaloni mirrors.
Your friend on the DTBB, George
Those mirrors were oem on European delivered Panteras from the late seventies until the end of production. (Excluding the Pantera Si, which used a different mirror)
Panteras manufactured during the Ford era were not equipped with Vitaloni mirrors.
Your friend on the DTBB, George
George,
Your ability to recall things always amazes me and especially considering what your alcohol consumption must be via those "buttery nipples". Then again, if Darwin was right the alcohol should selectively kill off the lower order and less useful brain cells and hence may actually help your memory
That's my excuse for being a drinkin' man!
That second mirror would have been the "Baby Turbo" of which I just managed to pick up a pair on ebay for $30
The old chrome Ford mirror just won't cut it and I definitely need to see what's going on out the passenger side as I'm passing those F cars 
Julian
Your ability to recall things always amazes me and especially considering what your alcohol consumption must be via those "buttery nipples". Then again, if Darwin was right the alcohol should selectively kill off the lower order and less useful brain cells and hence may actually help your memory
That's my excuse for being a drinkin' man!That second mirror would have been the "Baby Turbo" of which I just managed to pick up a pair on ebay for $30
The old chrome Ford mirror just won't cut it and I definitely need to see what's going on out the passenger side as I'm passing those F cars Julian
Here's another car with the Vitaloni "Bravo" style mirrors. It's the 1980 GTS/Group 4 car belonging to Greg Sullivan as featured in the 2000 No.4 edition of the POCA Profiles Magazine.
I wonder if Greg Sullivan or any other Pantera owner running these mirrors might be able to confirm whether they came that way from the factory. It's not that I don't trust George's advice (I do), but DeTomaso was notorious for raiding the spare parts bin, resulting in odd combinations on some cars. Some people go so far as to say that, in later years especially, there is no such thing as "stock" because each car was being hand built to custom order, and often odd parts substitutions occurred as regular parts either ran out or other factors came into play.
I wonder if Greg Sullivan or any other Pantera owner running these mirrors might be able to confirm whether they came that way from the factory. It's not that I don't trust George's advice (I do), but DeTomaso was notorious for raiding the spare parts bin, resulting in odd combinations on some cars. Some people go so far as to say that, in later years especially, there is no such thing as "stock" because each car was being hand built to custom order, and often odd parts substitutions occurred as regular parts either ran out or other factors came into play.
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Peter,
Sorry about the delay, but I finally got to Scottis and looked at that silver GT5. The mirrors are different from mine and yours, but the mounting is exactly like almost every other GT5 I've seen. It mounts to the top of the door panel, not on the side like on yours.
My suggestion to drill through the ball should solve your problem and be a lot easier than relocating the mounting to the top and having to repaint your doors.
Sorry about the delay, but I finally got to Scottis and looked at that silver GT5. The mirrors are different from mine and yours, but the mounting is exactly like almost every other GT5 I've seen. It mounts to the top of the door panel, not on the side like on yours.
My suggestion to drill through the ball should solve your problem and be a lot easier than relocating the mounting to the top and having to repaint your doors.
Deeb:
If you refer back to my November 7th post on this thread, you will see there are a number of GT5-S Panteras in Europe with the mirror mounted on the side of the door rather than the top (although, granted, mine is the only GT5 I have seen with this arrangement). I have attached a photo of #9504 belonging to Thomas Moser from Switzerland as one example. The way my mirror is constructed, and I suspect the way the one on the John Scotti car is constructed, allows it to be mounted in either place. Since you have the "Turbo" style Vitaloni on your car, yes, the John Scotti GT5 will be different from yours. However, my car does not have the Turbo Vitaloni mirrors, but rather ones that appear identical to the John Scotti car insofar as I can tell from the photos they sent me. That is why I got to thinking that, as unusual as my mirrors are, prehaps they are OEM after all.
Thanks for the advice on fixing my drooping problem (OK, OK, I know I'm leaving myself open to bad Viagra jokes here), and I will keep you posted on the outcome of my repair attempts.
By the way, what did you think of the John Scotti GT5? I had an offer to buy my car from a fellow in Vancouver, but I want to keep my car so I referred him to John Scotti. Therefore, I hope the John Scotti car is in as good a condition in real life as it appears from the photos and the salesman's glowing description.
If you refer back to my November 7th post on this thread, you will see there are a number of GT5-S Panteras in Europe with the mirror mounted on the side of the door rather than the top (although, granted, mine is the only GT5 I have seen with this arrangement). I have attached a photo of #9504 belonging to Thomas Moser from Switzerland as one example. The way my mirror is constructed, and I suspect the way the one on the John Scotti car is constructed, allows it to be mounted in either place. Since you have the "Turbo" style Vitaloni on your car, yes, the John Scotti GT5 will be different from yours. However, my car does not have the Turbo Vitaloni mirrors, but rather ones that appear identical to the John Scotti car insofar as I can tell from the photos they sent me. That is why I got to thinking that, as unusual as my mirrors are, prehaps they are OEM after all.
Thanks for the advice on fixing my drooping problem (OK, OK, I know I'm leaving myself open to bad Viagra jokes here), and I will keep you posted on the outcome of my repair attempts.
By the way, what did you think of the John Scotti GT5? I had an offer to buy my car from a fellow in Vancouver, but I want to keep my car so I referred him to John Scotti. Therefore, I hope the John Scotti car is in as good a condition in real life as it appears from the photos and the salesman's glowing description.
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The car looks stock (eg; nothing's been done to it). And although there are 18 photos of it on their post, none show the engine. Which tells me it's nothing to look at. And nothing to depend on either. I'd keep yours any day.
I would havce spent more time there investigating the car, but they asked me to move my truck, which they advised me was parked on the grass at their entrance. Actually, I was parked on top of 2 feet of ice and snow "above the grass" and there were 4" puddles of rain in their parking lot and I was wearing sneakers. Sheesh. I remember Scotti when he worked out of an old shitbox garage on Industrial Ave. Such is progress.
I would havce spent more time there investigating the car, but they asked me to move my truck, which they advised me was parked on the grass at their entrance. Actually, I was parked on top of 2 feet of ice and snow "above the grass" and there were 4" puddles of rain in their parking lot and I was wearing sneakers. Sheesh. I remember Scotti when he worked out of an old shitbox garage on Industrial Ave. Such is progress.
Here is a link to Scotti's GT5 $10k ins servicing. http://driving.canada.com/buy/used/details.spy?carid=348640#
do you happen to have the complete picture of this red car with rivitted on flares? Sure would like to see it if you do.
Thanks
Emery
emery@hawaii.rr.com
Thanks
Emery
emery@hawaii.rr.com
quote:Originally posted by Peter H:
Here's another car with the Vitaloni "Bravo" style mirrors. It's the 1980 GTS/Group 4 car belonging to Greg Sullivan as featured in the 2000 No.4 edition of the POCA Profiles Magazine.
I wonder if Greg Sullivan or any other Pantera owner running these mirrors might be able to confirm whether they came that way from the factory. It's not that I don't trust George's advice (I do), but DeTomaso was notorious for raiding the spare parts bin, resulting in odd combinations on some cars. Some people go so far as to say that, in later years especially, there is no such thing as "stock" because each car was being hand built to custom order, and often odd parts substitutions occurred as regular parts either ran out or other factors came into play.
Emery:
Here is a photo, as per your request. There is a colour centrefold of this car in this POCA Profiles edition, but it is too large for my flatbed scanner. If you want more details, I suggest you order the back issue from the POCA store: http://www.panteraclub.com/store/backissues.html
- Peter
Here is a photo, as per your request. There is a colour centrefold of this car in this POCA Profiles edition, but it is too large for my flatbed scanner. If you want more details, I suggest you order the back issue from the POCA store: http://www.panteraclub.com/store/backissues.html
- Peter
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Deeb:
Thanks to Mikee's link, I was able to have a closer look at the John Scotti GT5. The engine bay looks dirty but otherwise not too bad. The salesman told me the motor had been freshened up a year ago, and it does look like it has fresh paint on it. Of course, the real questions are how the engine actually runs, what shape the ZF is in, what the car looks like from underneath and what lurks under that new paint job.
Someone installed an aftermarket shift knob and pedal covers. The heater a/c control is the early model, not the Maserati unit that's in every post-1980 GT5 and GT5-S Pantera I have seen. The engine has an aftermarket air cleaner and spreader bar, and I don't think those deck lid struts are original. Also, the valve covers look aftermarket to me, although I have never been clear on whether DeTomaso ever installed ones like them at the factory. Mine were just regular stamped metal.
The interior looks pretty worn, and someone has butchered the dash and door panels with aftermarket stereo speakers. The photos that are still missing are of the front trunk and the rear luggage tub. They appear neither in the web photos nor in the ones the salesman sent me...
Of course you are right that neither of us should be trading our cars in for this one – there simply is no comparison. But then again, we have spent dumpsters of money and untold hours in restoring and upgrading our cars. Unless there are unseen rust issues, someone willing to invest time and money in the John Scotti car could have a nice Pantera at the end of the day. As a friend of mine likes to say, "there are few problems in life that more money won't fix!"
Thanks for taking the time to go down there and have a look at those mirrors for me. I appreciate the trouble you went through, and regret you were subjected to such ridiculous abuse. With that kind of attitude toward potential customers, it's no wonder that GT5 is still sitting in John Scotti's showroom.
BTW, I am flying to Vancouver today and will be meeting with Steve Meausette, who has a radical Weber equipped, bundle of snakes exhaust GT5-style 1972 Pantera that he has modified for a clamshell rear hatch! Steve and I will also try to hook up with Herman Leong who has a white 1982 GT5 that was featured in PI Magazine (and is another car originally imported and sold by John Scotti, incidentally). Steve also wants to take me to Burnaby to Wes Stinson's house to see his collection. Wes has three Panteras including a rare factory Group Three. I plan to take some photos and to ask Steve, Wes and Herman if I may post a few after I get back.
- Peter
Thanks to Mikee's link, I was able to have a closer look at the John Scotti GT5. The engine bay looks dirty but otherwise not too bad. The salesman told me the motor had been freshened up a year ago, and it does look like it has fresh paint on it. Of course, the real questions are how the engine actually runs, what shape the ZF is in, what the car looks like from underneath and what lurks under that new paint job.
Someone installed an aftermarket shift knob and pedal covers. The heater a/c control is the early model, not the Maserati unit that's in every post-1980 GT5 and GT5-S Pantera I have seen. The engine has an aftermarket air cleaner and spreader bar, and I don't think those deck lid struts are original. Also, the valve covers look aftermarket to me, although I have never been clear on whether DeTomaso ever installed ones like them at the factory. Mine were just regular stamped metal.
The interior looks pretty worn, and someone has butchered the dash and door panels with aftermarket stereo speakers. The photos that are still missing are of the front trunk and the rear luggage tub. They appear neither in the web photos nor in the ones the salesman sent me...
Of course you are right that neither of us should be trading our cars in for this one – there simply is no comparison. But then again, we have spent dumpsters of money and untold hours in restoring and upgrading our cars. Unless there are unseen rust issues, someone willing to invest time and money in the John Scotti car could have a nice Pantera at the end of the day. As a friend of mine likes to say, "there are few problems in life that more money won't fix!"
Thanks for taking the time to go down there and have a look at those mirrors for me. I appreciate the trouble you went through, and regret you were subjected to such ridiculous abuse. With that kind of attitude toward potential customers, it's no wonder that GT5 is still sitting in John Scotti's showroom.
BTW, I am flying to Vancouver today and will be meeting with Steve Meausette, who has a radical Weber equipped, bundle of snakes exhaust GT5-style 1972 Pantera that he has modified for a clamshell rear hatch! Steve and I will also try to hook up with Herman Leong who has a white 1982 GT5 that was featured in PI Magazine (and is another car originally imported and sold by John Scotti, incidentally). Steve also wants to take me to Burnaby to Wes Stinson's house to see his collection. Wes has three Panteras including a rare factory Group Three. I plan to take some photos and to ask Steve, Wes and Herman if I may post a few after I get back.
- Peter
Peter
Thanks for the red picture. I'll be mounting fiberglass flares very soon and still debating in my mind how to attach them....with or with out rivets.
Mark-AKA-Devil-if you are out there, I would love to see a side view of your black riveted flared car too! Thanks for the trouble.
Thanks for the red picture. I'll be mounting fiberglass flares very soon and still debating in my mind how to attach them....with or with out rivets.
Mark-AKA-Devil-if you are out there, I would love to see a side view of your black riveted flared car too! Thanks for the trouble.
Relax on The Scotti Bashing . I take a look at that car every time i go there . It is really sharp looking , however iam not a fan of black interior. You know when you buy a car from this place it is in pristine condition. KM's a bit high on this car. Is your buddy really considering buying a GT5 iam selling mine in April.
Detomaso83:
Post some pictures and information. I will forward them.
- Peter
Post some pictures and information. I will forward them.
- Peter
Peter whats your email?
My address is:
[my initial]havlik[at]pris.ca
Sorry about the code, but I hate spam.
[my initial]havlik[at]pris.ca
Sorry about the code, but I hate spam.
Hi Mark, enjoying your photos. I will be in Montreal from Feb 24th-Mar.4th. Possibly in Ottawa for a few day with my son visiting museums. Love to see/talk P's with you. I am "absorbing" as much as I can at this point. I purchased my car a few months ago.
Blake,
I'd be happy to meet and chat and show you my car (sadly, no driving with this weather...see pic). Contact me by e-mail with your schedule and let's get together. You should try to meet David (DEEB) in Montreal. His knowledge and love of Panteras (and his GT5) are legendary.
pantera01826-AT-rogers.com
Mark
I'd be happy to meet and chat and show you my car (sadly, no driving with this weather...see pic). Contact me by e-mail with your schedule and let's get together. You should try to meet David (DEEB) in Montreal. His knowledge and love of Panteras (and his GT5) are legendary.
pantera01826-AT-rogers.com
Mark
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thanks Mark...will let you know when I am in Ottawa(a few days in advance). Also thanks for David's contact info...will touch base with him.
The weather in my area had been quite mild until today...I have had my car out for various quick "on and off exit ramp" jonts over the past month. Just can't overcome the temptation when exiting the house by the garage.
Note of interest...John Scotti gas two GTS's in his Brossard, Qc. location(this is apart from the one he displayed on the website). I saw them in the fall. One looks in pretty decent shape and the other is a bit rough.
Talk to you soon,
Blake
The weather in my area had been quite mild until today...I have had my car out for various quick "on and off exit ramp" jonts over the past month. Just can't overcome the temptation when exiting the house by the garage.
Note of interest...John Scotti gas two GTS's in his Brossard, Qc. location(this is apart from the one he displayed on the website). I saw them in the fall. One looks in pretty decent shape and the other is a bit rough.
Talk to you soon,
Blake
Blake, that was my e-mail address. When you send me yours, I'll forward it on to David in case he doesn't want his posted here (although I think he has in the past...)
Hey Blake,
I was travelling a bit - Paris and then Atlanta - both nice and warm with dry roads. I even saw a nice GT5S in Paris! This snow is killing me.
Let me know when you're coming. Maybe we can drop by Scotti where I bought both of my cars quite a few years ago.
My email is dberman@canspan.com
I was travelling a bit - Paris and then Atlanta - both nice and warm with dry roads. I even saw a nice GT5S in Paris! This snow is killing me.
Let me know when you're coming. Maybe we can drop by Scotti where I bought both of my cars quite a few years ago.
My email is dberman@canspan.com
sounds good! I am in Montreal the evening of Feb. 24th. Visiting Mom in St. Lambert...next door to Scotti (Brossard) where I saw the two GTS's in the fall. Love to see the P he has at the main Mtl. showroom. Will contact you via email. I may take my car out for a rip to Banff tomorrow....main roads(TC) are dry as a bone. Just can't resist!