Where are we on front brake rotors? I can't find any mustang two piece and although I was able to find a decent looking rotor, it was a 12.5"
Has anyone found anything?
Thanks, Paul
Original Post
Replies sorted oldest to newest
The rotor referenced above is .94 inches thick and will most likely not work with the stock OEM calipers
The rotors for an early Mustang were thin enough for a Pantera swap, but the thicker version used on the later mustangs…???
Larry
It occurs to me that having a set drilled for the pantera bolt pattern may be the easiest answer. I am not a machinist and have no idea. But if you could find the perfect "core" so to speak. That is, a brand new slotted and drilled rotor for another application. Any machine shop should be able to chock it up and drill it. I would think?
I did look up the P/N... BD60209 from wagner. No longer made.
I guess the Mustang vendors would know right away if the 68 two piece was around.
My original Pantera fronts are .763, on the caliper. The '65 Mustang are .768.
So the application that you are looking for is 65-67 Mustang.
Aftermarket like the Brembo would be an alternative.
However, I discovered that the front hub of a Mustang fits the spindle of a Pantera.
If I remember correctly, the bearings are the same?
That means that it is more then possible that the 65 Mustang with the integral hub would fit.
Of course you would need to change the studs that they come with, 1/2"-20 to metric OR change the lug nuts to the SAE size.
I don't know of anyone who has investigated this yet.
Personally I went another way. I put the "Big Ford" calipers and rotors on the front. 12" x 1.25" vented. It just required a fairly simple adapter plate.
That setup is still run in vintage Trans-am today and the Porterfield pads for it are one of the most commonly sold pads.
There is some weight gain but that is largely in the rotor itself. The difference in the weight of the calipers isn't significant at all.
The advantage here is they are "off the shelf non-exotics" and they work with your stock master.
IF you are going to mess around in the back, it would be a better then a good idea to go to a rotor to mount over the outside of the wheel flange so you don't have to mess with disassembling the entire hub assembly every time you want to resurface the rotors.
You ARE NOT going to find anyone who can cut the rears on the car.
You can find (or have made) aftermarket vented rotors built to the right offset, od, and thickness. The issue is going to be that the od of the wheel flange on the Pantera is a little larger then usual.
It's around 5.875"od. MOST of the hubs with a 4.5" wheel stud bolt circle are going to want to stay at around 5.25" to 5.375".
The simplest thing to do IF you wanted to go that route would be to cut the Pantera's wheel flanges down BUT those things are on the thin side AND the heads of the wheel studs that are used would need to be cut down as well.
SO there really isn't a simple off the shelf solution to the back brakes.
OH! Why should you worry about having to resurface the rear rotors?
Not that YOU necessarily are going to run as Komakazi hard as the Vintage Trans Am racers are, BUT if you do or intend to do "track days", you simply are not going to get the life out of the pads and the rotors as you would even just running hard on the street.
I'VE SEEN VTA cars go through three sets of pads AND rotors IN PRACTICE before the race. That may not be you but it should be a strong suggestion that maybe you should make the brakes as easy and inexpensive to change as possible? Just sayin'. 
Attachments
Images (3)
Summit shows a few non hub rotors for 67 mustangs. Centric, hawk and ebc are some.
Personally I went another way. I put the "Big Ford" calipers and rotors on the front. 12" x 1.25" vented. It just required a fairly simple adapter plate.
This sounds like a great idea! What application are the big calipers used on?
Thanks, Paul
Yes the replacement early Mustang one piece hub and rotor assemblies, cast as a unit and not just held together with the studs, are a direct bolt on, including bearings, for our Pantera spindles.
Bolt on. No fuss and no hassle. But you will wind up with SAE studs and will need to buy 10 new SAE Lugnuts
Larry
@lf-tp2511 posted:Yes the replacement early Mustang one piece hub and rotor assemblies, cast as a unit and not just held together with the studs, are a direct bolt on, including bearings, for our Pantera spindles.
Bolt on. No fuss and no hassle. But you will wind up with SAE studs and will need to buy 10 new SAE Lugnuts
Larry
So there is no front rotor issue??...lol...
It was my understanding that only the hat section of the mustang assembly would work?
OK, well... problem solved...lol...
I still like the big ford caliper idea, I want to learn more about this swap.
If you can replace just the rotor and retain the hub, that avoids the SAE stud issue
that is what is driving the preference to replace just the rotor rather than using the readily available cast one piece assemblies
Larry
@forestg posted:Summit shows a few non hub rotors for 67 mustangs. Centric, hawk and ebc are some.
Forest I've done this road several times over the last two years. What is going on, is that seemingly everyone" is using the Centric OLD illustration of the rotor, seperate from the hub.
The Centric part number is the same with the interagal hub v the separate rotor.
If you order them, you will get the hub rotor combination. There are no seperate rotors left anywhere that anyone can find.
The "salesperson" that you speak with are looking at the same picture that you are on the computer monitor. They are unaware of what a '67 Mustang front rotor is supposed to look like to begin with. The 65-67 Mustang rotor is the same.
The rotor gets thicker on the '68 and newer.
As far as the " Big Ford" swap goes. Go to any ebay seller. Enter 1969 Lincoln.
It is going to also list 1965-1969 Ford Galaxie, Thunderbird, Lincoln.
It's the same part.
Ford originally listed the rotors as a 12" od. I have never been able to find those, only 11.75"od. I suspect that the 12", is a "nominal" 12"s?
You will need one left caliper and one right caliper. They are the same except where the bleed valve is located. If you look at my picture, you will see the bleeder at 12 o'clock high.
You use your existing hubs and lug studs. They are a nice snug fit and it's easier to assemble them if you have a press. I have a $99 Harbor Freight 12 ton press.
You will need to "clearance" the calipers in order to use an allen socket bolt to replace the existing hex head bolts. From memory now, so don't get all pissy and threaten to shoot me if I get this a little wrong please, M12-1.50 thread. I played with the lengths to get full engagement so went through several sets before I liked it.
I don't remember the length of those bolts but they are 12.6 v the 8.8 original hex bolts. I can refer back to that later if you need more specifics.
You are going to thread the calipers to 9/16" nc, bolt through the adapter into the calipers.
Now there isn't anyone that you can buy premade adapters from for this combination so I made them myself. Now for me working in steel plate, steel billet and welding it together isn't much of an issue.
The plate that bolts to the spindle uprights of the original Girling calipers is made of 3/8" x 3" plate. It doesn't need to be hardened to any extent so you can use 3/8" x 3" "regular steel" pieces from Home Depot. They will come in 36" lengths. I think they are like $28 each. You only need one for one car (if you get them right the first time). The third set worked like a charm for me.
Now you are going to find that you need to space out or shim the caliper in order to center it on the rotor.
On mine I needed a 3/4" shim. What I did was buy some 3/4" x 3/4" regular steel stock, cut one inch long pieces and welded those on the 3/8" adapter plates.
The drilled holes for the two grade 8 9/16" bolts to go through into the calipers.
Now depending on machining specs of YOUR original "spindle uprights", you may in addition need to use hardened steel shims to get the centering right?
I didn't have that issue in front but had quite a variation on the rear uprights that I didn't discover until I did the Tesla EPB brake swap in the rear. There because I didn't need the Pantera parking brake assembly anymore, I swapped in new '65 Mustang front brake calipers.
In the rear of the car, the front location tabs for mounting the brakes had about a .030" thickness variation so on the left side I needed to shim there.
You can get them from industrial suppliers like Grainger, etc. They come as thin as a few thousands on an inch up to about .030".
Now this is all the type of thing that I like to do fabrication wise. It took a few tries to get the "adapters" both front and rear to where I liked them.
I'm not showing the adapters in the pictures, actually I don't even know if I took any. Yours may vary.
You don't NEED to machine these things out of billet stock on a CNC machine. It would be nice I suppose to say that you did but then you would probably be screwing around with the mill for a week or so until the adapters looked just right?
For me it was like playing Legos just with steel blocks, cutting, fitting and welding them together.
Make your initial adapter patterns out of plywood until you get the shapes close to transfer to the steel plates.
Sure there are several kits that you can buy right now and just install them. Some Brembo. Some Wilwood. None of them are Ford except this Big Ford set up here.
In the '70s if you were racing a Pantera in the US, you likely would need better brakes then stock and if you were around Trans Am racing, you saw the Trans Am Mustangs race and this was a system lifted directly from the Ford and Shelby Trans Am race cars, not designed and developed by me, but over at Kar Kraft.
"Ford's" comment was, these are brakes that were designed to stop a 7,500 pound car. On a 3,000 pound car..."
Of course, if you are strictly into Gucci stuff for your Italian cousin, FORD ANYTHING would NEVER DO! They're just so big and ugly!
Now on the Pantera, there is only one thing that I don't like about this set up. There are two bolts that hold the calipers on to the spindle uprights. They are M12.
On the Trans Am Mustangs, those are 9/16". That would be an M14.29. Also the spindles themselves are 1-1/16" in diameter, the equivelent of the small Mustang spindles.
You could try to redrill the spindle uprights for M14 bolts but I wouldn't recommend it. Those are hardened steel and drilling them is one thing but attempting to retap them to M14 is another.
The Trans Am Mustangs used 1-3/8" od spindles. I'm surprised that there wasn't a Pantera big spindle racing version ever offered? But then I suspect that there was a good deal of friction between Ford and Detomaso over many little things anyway and like Ferrari, didn't like being told what to do by a "big fat man, who made big ugly cars, in a big ugly factory" ? 
You will only find this "Big Ford" brake thing on US raced Panteras, raced by Americans. Surprise, surprise.
Incidentally, it would appear initially that the '75-76 Lincoln Versalles rear disc brake rotor MAY be a bolt on for the rear Pantera rotor? At this point I am not taking the rear apart to find out but the only issue is it may be too thick for the calipers to handle. Watch this space.
Attachments
Images (1)
Awesome !
For what it’s worth I have the 1967 Ford vented rotors on our 72 Pre-L Summit Racing number SUM-BR-61053 with NAPA Number 641-1597 M12 studs. Haven’t seen any issues but don’t have many road hours either. You will need to push out the stock inch studs and ream the holes up. I used a .6225 inch reamer for the new metric studs.
Seems like a great opportunity for @zr1pantera to bundle new front rotors together with this kit that I'm going to get one of these days:
https://www.saccrestorations.n...ton-w-parking-brake/
@jmardy posted:Seems like a great opportunity for @zr1pantera to bundle new front rotors together with this kit that I'm going to bet one of these days:
https://www.saccrestorations.n...ton-w-parking-brake/
Agreed. Most here are only do it yourselfers to a degree. Someone like Chris could help many with pre-packaging an item like this.
Personally I'd love to see a rear rotor that installs from the outside over the hub also. That one is going to take quite a bit of involvement to do on a personal level.
Sometimes I just get tired of re-inventing the wheel?
Attachments
Images (3)
I agree @zr1pantera and the crew at Sacc Restorations have been great with so many braking needs and other products too. They maybe able to steer us in the right direction. I see Ipsco has aluminum front hubs,
https://ipsco.org/newsite/prod...3-pantera-front-hub/
but not sure if he they would be able to machine up an option for rotors.
@KR500 Thanks for the tip on the 65-67 Mustang rotors. You only need to ream out the lug holes if you want to run M12 lugs though, right? You could use 1/2-20 lugs instead, yes?
Also, seems like you could use the Wilwood rotors also:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/wil-160-14324bk
Critical to this discussion. Early 65-67 mustang rotors are thinner than the later mustang rotors.
The Wilwood rotor at summit is .94 inches thick. I invite you to try to fit that inside a stock Pantera caliper. Can’t be done.
also critical is the fact that catalog photographs of brake rotors are often generic or outdated.
we have been down this Mustang rotor road so many times before it really is getting a bit old. Please read the previous threads and comprehend that there are differences in thicknesses
there are only a few manufacturing facilities for aftermarket brake rotors. They have moved away from the two-part assemblies to a single piece cast hub and rotor.
As was previously shared, you may very well be able to ream out the SAE lug nut holes and find a correct metric lug nut,
but you can’t fit a thick rotor where only a thin rotor will fit
mild rant finished. 😉
Larry
All depends what you want. I’m not familiar with the WW rotors. We removed the stock rotors and I installed new bearings and seals in the mustang rotors. I didn’t see any clearance issues with the rotors or calipers. We have the 17” Campi wheels on our car. I do remember there were some alignment shims to help center the caliper on the rotor you need to watch for. Just be sure the rotor is fully seated on the spindle and check your centering. As far as the lug nuts go it’s your choice if you want them different front to back. It’s only a matter of time before you will get them mixed up unless they are different shapes. Most auto parts have a press in the back take the new rotors and have them push out the 1/2 inch studs which generally have a 9/16 knurled spline. Be sure you ream the holes square thru the flange (a good tight properly set up drill press or Bridgeport) no hand drills. Ream them up to the size required for proper press fit the 12 mm metric spline body to fight the tightening torque to hold the wheels on. Take them back to the shop and have them press them back in. You can flip an open lug nut over and pull them in that way if you can find a way to hold onto the rotor.
Thanks guys. And I appreciate what you're saying Larry. I have read as much as I could find and was aware of the thickness issue. My intention was to find new rotors that could be used with the Wilwood 6 piston calipers that SACC is now offering. I could just call Scott and ask him.
If you have newer Wilwood calipers I am quite sure they will accept the thicker rotors.
but the summit rotor previously posted is in all likelihood a one piece casting and will present the SAE versus metric stud issue for you to resolve
Larry
Remember, photographs seen with online listings are often generic or outdated.
If you are seeking the thinner early mustang rotors you should search for part number BD60208
If you are searching for the thicker, later mustang rotors you should search for part number BD60209
I have been there and done that on replacing all four rotors on 2511. I followed some inaccurate advice and purchased four BD60209, the thicker mustang rotor.
I still have two of these available.
As these were purchased quite a few years ago they are the two part assemblies. I do not believe the later mustang hub is correct for the Pantera spindle, but as these are the two part assemblies the disc can be removed and attached to the Pantera hub, thus retaining the metric wheel studs
Please send a private message should anyone be interested in purchasing these.
Larry
Attachments
You all do realize that 12mm is smaller than 1/2" so no reaming needs be done. The lug bolts actually press into the hub and when I put the mustang rotors on my car I just pressed the original lug bolts through the rotor and into the hub without doing any modifications to anything.
Hi the issue is not the actual size of the threaded portion of the stud. You are correct 12mm is smaller than the 1/2 inch equivalent (12.7mm). I did find 12mm studs that would not lock in the stock hole of the rotor. The issue that requires sizing is the matching of the spline below the threads that prevents the rotation during tightening the wheel. I’m happy to hear that you found a stud that matched with sufficient interference to change from inch to metric. I was not that lucky and had to ream the holes to change from 1/2 inch to 12mm and achieve the correct interference.
Check with Larry at Pantera Parts Connection Reno. He sells Porsche Brembo rotors that have been machined to correctly fit our Panteras.
https://www.panteraparts.com/store1.php#
welcome to panteraland lmao
The stock metric Pantera wheel studs PRESS into the Ford hubs and rotors. No reaming.
Good to know thanks!