Gear selection problems

Peter,

You can remove the transaxle and bell housing with the engine in place. Ideally you will want to tilt the rear of the engine a little with a block and jack (but be careful not to crush the oil pan), so a) the rear transaxle mounts will clear the mounting tabs and b) the input shaft can slide backward,

It is also easier if you unbolt and can move the A/C condenser/shroud out of the way a little, no need to undo any of the A/C hoses or lose freon.

The clattering noise could be a number of things, but definitely warrants further investigation.

Julian

Good Luck. Let us know what you find.

Rocky

Not yet certain but I may have found the problem
(At long last))
I think I fitted the quadrant the wrong way round
ie, the bracket which pivots and connects to the Master cyl rod, and the clutch pedal.

If I can get some gears tomorrow I will be laughing teacakes!

Peter,

That is great that it might be an easy fix, however I'n not sure how the master cylinder and pedal assembly creates a noise from the bellhousing?

Julian

quote:

Originally posted by Peter Fenlon:...
I think I fitted the quadrant the wrong way round
ie, the bracket which pivots and connects to the Master cyl rod, and the clutch pedal.

You mean this linkage

Thats the linkage all right I hope the noise in the rear end is the result of a poorly positioned set up, fingers crossed.

Peter; If you have what is depicted in JFB's post, then you have a clutch effort reduction kit installed in the car. There are a number of posts regarding the proper installation of this kit. Just go to FIND: Type in Effort Reduction for the various posts and information. The tolerances are quite exact, and your clutch may not be disengaging properly.

And more (possible) bad news: all the links in the 'effort reduction kit' run steel on steel pins that cannot practically be lubricated and thus after decades, the holes are worn egg-shaped. This creates slack in the linkage, and things are so tight in the clutch linkage assembly, we can't really afford much slack. THe links are thin so bushing them is difficult. Some have brazed up the link holes, then redrilled them using the excess braze as brass bushings. Hardened dowel pins fixes worn pivot pins.

I think I am running the risk of boring you blokes rigid with my feeble efforts to get a car to go into gear!
But when I said that was the linkage, I meant it showed the bell crank bracket. Bosswrench the pins and all holes are spot on A1 round so thats OK.
I was so convinced that it must be the bell crank
but it wasn't so whats left, I took out the gearbox, and found nothing amiss with any of the components.
EXCEPT the only part I hadn't bought new was the spinner plate, what I did with this was have it re conditioned by a local clutch company.

This being the case, I took the spinner to another Pantera owner in Lancashire to compare it with an original Pantera plate he had taken from his car.

The difference in the plates was drastic, and I can only assume that the company that relined my spinner just gave me another type from their stock which was the same diameter and spline configuration.

Not knowing that the pantera spinner is unique to the Pantera I just fitted it.

So trying to save a bit of cash has probably cost me dearly.

I have been in this position now thinking I have found the problem many times, but will start assembly again tomorrow with my pals spinner plate which he has very kindly donated.

to be continued as they say but fingers crossed again……………………………………...

"Spinner Plate"??? a assume you are talking about the clutch friction disk? If its too thick your clutch will not disengage and therefore will not shift properly. This happened to us with the Bora years ago with a rebuilt clutch friction disk that was too thick. Hope that makes you feel better.......

by "too thick", wouldn't that mean the "marcel springs" are too thick, thus requires more travel of the TOB to relieve the marcel and disengage.

when you set the slave linkage, besides setting the initial travel to make the TOB touch the fingers, did you also check how much seperation there was with full down clutch pedal?

quote:

I think I am running the risk of boring you blokes rigid with my feeble efforts to get a car to go into gear!

No, we are laughing teacakes!

quote:

Not knowing that the pantera spinner is unique to the Pantera I just fitted it

I am not kidding - I just received a large pile of PI magazines, and in one of them, it was claimed that the clutch disk ("spinners") were disassembled, modified, and reassembled at the DeTomaso factory because of the change in geometry of the Pantera bell housing vs. the "standard" Ford geometry.

I am working very hard to find the article.... I've lost it, but it will resurface.

I don't know if it's true, but you are seeing the same effect.

Rocky

Found it!

Winter/Spring 1976 PI Magazine

After weeks of trial and error, mostly error on my Part, the cause of the problem was the spinner plate being the wrong type for the car.
After pulling the box out, I was fortunate enough to have another Pantera owner who had an original plate not too far from my home, when we compared them they were totally different.
I was stunned when the gear lever quietly and precisely selected gears again, after fitting this spinner.

I had no Idea that the clutch system was so critical, I did note that the release bearing I fitted was 19mm wide, whilst my original one was 18mm wide.

there is almost NO free play in the operating lever, if the bearing fails in service I will try and find an 18mm bearing which would enable a little more free play.

Thanks to all for enduring the saga of my troubles, had I known that the clutch spinner and pressure plate are UNIQUE to the Pantera
I would have paid much more attention.

Geronimo.