Group 4 "best in world" 20 miles to my house

What on earth??!! ... is that meant to be a Gr4 transformed into a GT5??

You just wouldn't do that!

Looks the same to me.
But if you are familiar with german
"we can proove best car in the world ever ever"
"even more original then it left the company de tomaso"
balbalblablabala
Like this

Just wonder if the VIN shows a group 4 or if even that is a lie. Maybe they swapped the vin because the original car was destroyed. No one would convert a group 4 to a GT5, no way.

And it hast to be a swap of the VIN definitly. Can anyone confimr the VIN P874xxx9123?

In his pictures (towards the back) he has a email that calls it a group 3, and he calls out the VIN number. There is a bunch of tech info from when the car was sold to the 3rd owner.

There is also a picture with the fender and hood all torn up from a racing accident.

Actually, I think the old pictures are pretty cool, especially with all the stuff posted up on his photo page. Looks like the car has had an exciting life!

Rocky

From Provamo.....

Factory built and titled as a Group 3 but with numerous Group 4 features such as wheel arch extensions (flares), wheels, big brakes, aluminum doors and hood, sliding windows, uprated engine and a 1200kg weight.
Initially delivered through Max Irber, Munich to Rolf Lindinger who raced it from 1979 through 1983.

This very example is the very last of the few works cars built by the Pantera racing cars and was ordered new by the official De Tomaso and Lamborghini dealer Max Irber of Munich for racing drover Rolf A. Lindinger. As Alessandro de Tomaso himself did not want to build any more group 4 cars, knowing that this series would come soon to an end, it was decided by his works director Bertoci to declare it as a group 3 car, but to build it with the correct group 4 specification. All this is showing on the original order from, which comes with the car and is dated 6th October 1978. In total only four works-built group 3 cars were delivered to Germany, and this is the only one with full group 4 specification!

It was converted in the years 1984/85 on road Gr 5, as it was usual at that time, and with the third owner approx. 20 years in the garage. In the Fzg. 5,7 litre aggregate with fuel injection system is installed.

So the VIN seems to fit but the seller tells another story which is sad. Why doesn't he tell the true story of the car which is also nice.

This is what he tells us, the translation of the advert
"
One of 15 build works gourp 4 Pantera, never restored, like from the production line delivered with alloy hoods, doors, draw windows without lift, Racing seats, roll bar, group 3 brake, adjustable stabis, 10 and 13j campas, 10 litre oil pan, oil cool...
"
Then comes some history Munich delivery to Rolf Lindinger.
And now
"An actual expertise prooves everything told above."

there is some spares then

"The last chance to get the latest build original (and propably the most original at f...in all) works Group 4 Pantera. This is a once in a livetime chance."

Hardly the best in the world, but define the term world? Maybe that's the trick?

That s/n is shown as a Gr-3 club racer in my Roster. The homolgation papers for Gr-3 lists what would make a road-going Pantera into a Gr-3 for club-level racing. Then it says that anything beyond this bumps the car into Gr-4 and lists the bolt-on factory parts available to do this. IMHO, this does NOT make such a machine into a factory GR-4, especially without at least some competition history in that race class. At that time, race organizers were not accepting clones or 'tribute cars' in Gr-4.

It would be interesting to see if this chassis has the myriad changes and factory lightening holes that all racing GR-4/Gt-4s had, not just a few bolt-ons. Adding the lightening holes after the fact means literally disassembling the spot-welded monococque and stamping the holes, then re-spot-welding. And there are other things that need to be removed from a street car and welds dressed to invisibilty- the console e-brake mount, the heater/AC mounts behind the dash, etc. etc. that were never delivered on factory Gr-4/GT-4 race cars. The factory did build two 'Stradales'- road legal 'silhouette racers' in the late '70s according to Olczyck, about which very little is known so I guess it's possible they made a third one.

quote:

Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
Hardly the best in the world, but define the term world? Maybe that's the trick?

You don't have to be tricky like Houdini to know the definition of world...
...unless of course he was referring to "world" as another planet...Ahhhhhhh...semantics

Reminds me of a joke...Guy walks up to a man with a dog at his feet...Guy asks..."Does your dog bite?!"....Man answers, "No"....Guy reaches down to pet dog, & gets bit...Guy, exclaims in angry...You said your dog doesn't bit!!!...Man retorts..."That's NOT my dog!!!"...semantics!!!...Mark


world
wərld/Submit
noun
1.
the earth, together with all of its countries, peoples, and natural features.
"he was doing his bit to save the world"
synonyms: earth, globe, planet, sphere
"he traveled the world"
all of the people, societies, and institutions on the earth.
"world affairs"
synonyms: everyone, everybody, people, mankind, humankind, humanity, the (general) public, the population, the populace, all and sundry, ‘every Tom, Dick, and Harry’
"she would show the world that she was strong"
denoting one of the most important or influential people or things of its class.
modifier noun: world
"they had been brought up to regard France as a world power"
another planet like the earth.
plural noun: worlds
"the possibility of life on other worlds"
synonyms: planet, moon, star, heavenly body, orb
"life on other worlds"
the material universe or all that exists; everything.
2.
a part or aspect of human life or of the natural features of the earth, in particular.