I have just finished an update and consolidation of the 9000 Series Pantera Registry, and so I thought my revised calculations of GT5 and GT5-S production numbers might be of interest.

GT5

The GT5 debuted at the Turin motor show in 1980. The first factory noted GT5 is, according to Matt Stone and Rob de la Rive Box, 9250. Matt and Rob state, in their book Pantera Buyers Guide, that prior GT5s were probably recorded as modified GTS units. Franz Krump has also written that the Turin motor show car was 9250. So, in short, 9250 is one of two options for the VIN to consider for the GT5 start.

However, so far I have found 35 GT5 cars with VINs lower than 9250 (the earliest Pantera GT5 I have on record is 9107) and I am not sure how reasonable it is to assume they are all conversions.

I have been able to identify seven allegedly 1979 Panteras with numbers higher than 9100, and we know the GT5 model debuted in 1980, so I think it is reasonable to assume that no GT5 will have a lower chassis number than 9100. So, in short, I believe 9100 is the second, and better guess, of two options for the VIN to consider for the GT5 start.

The last GT5 in the official production run is 9374, built in 1985. There were more GT5 Panteras built as special orders after that, but only two are known, these being 9517 and 9542. As the GT5-S registry becomes more complete, it is increasingly less likely any more will be found.

Given that chassis were numbered sequentially, if we subtract the first car’s chassis number from the last one’s, we can get a reasonable idea of the maximum number of cars that could have been produced (assuming no more later special orders will be found):

9374 - 9100 = 274 cars

If you add the two known later special orders, there is a maximum of 276 cars that could have been produced. Next, we have to subtract the number of GTS, Gr3, GT4 and L Panteras built during the official GT5 production run, because these models were produced concurrently. I have found 36 of these with VINs between 9100 and 9374. Therefore, my best estimate of the maximum possible number of GT5 Panteras, based on the second option, is as follows:

276 - 36 = 240

If we use the first option and use the first factory-recognized VIN as the start point, the calculation works out as follows:

9374 – 9250 = 124 cars

If you add the two special order cars, a total of 126 could have been produced. Next, we have to subtract the 8 other model Panteras built between these two VINs.

126 – 8 = 116


GT5-S

The first GT5-S is known to be 9375, a 1985, and the last is the last GT5-S is 9562, a 1990.

9562 - 9375 = 187

I am aware of three GTS Panteras and two GT5s having been built during this interval so;

187 - 5 = 182

The number is likely to go down as we find other models of Panteras with chassis numbers within the GT5-S range but, for the time being, 182 is the best estimate of the maximum total number of GT5-S Panteras that could have been produced.


My 9000 series registry currently contains 316 cars:

GT5 90
GT5-S 118
90 Si 31
Other: 77*

• This category includes L, Gr3, GT4, race cars and indeterminate cars.

Going by VIN numbers, there were a total of 602 Panteras in the 9000 series. That means I am still missing 286, or 48%.

Without the vendors and the factory making their records available, I expect finding many more will be difficult. There are whole regions of the world where I know there are a lot of cars, but that are seemingly impossible to get information from. The Middle East, South Africa and Japan are the big ones.
Original Post
Thank you Jimmym and Rocky.

The 9000 series registry now contains many, many thousands of photos adding up to over 10GB of data. What you see on the ProvaMo registry website is just the tip of the iceberg because of space limitations and privacy considerations.

Some years ago I grappled with the question of how to make it more widely available to the DeTomaso community, but could not come up with a solution that would not be a full time job. I have had to satisfy myself with just making it available to the few historians among us. POCA, PI, UKDTDC & Svenska De Tomaso Klubben, all of whom have endorsed my registry, will also have copies in case I get hit by a bus.

A copy of the index to the registry is available on the members-only side of the POCA web site, by the way. It is usually not up to date because I forget or don't get around to sending it to the web master that often, but it is still useful in giving you some idea of where the known 9000 series cars are in the world today.

I hope people appreciate just how much work Chuck puts into the ProvaMo registry web site, because I can tell you just tracking the few cars that I have and merely compiling the information into files without processing it is a massive time commitment. For Chuck to have tracked information on several thousand cars as he has, and then single-handedly processed it to write up entries that can be posted publicly without causing privacy concerns, not to mention building and maintaining his website, is nothing short of a wonder. I really don't know how he does it.
Thanks so much for the info Peter. Super informative. What I find interesting about your data is that it is possible that there are fewer GT5 than GT5S'. It confirms what I noticed when I was searching to buy a late model Pantera in the US. Which was that it was easier for me to find a GT5S than it was to find a GT5.
Your observation coincides with mine and that of many others, ND4SPD. GT5 Panteras are more rare if we go by the cars offered for sale over time, or if we go by the numbers I have been able to find for the registry (90 GT5 vs. 118 GT5-S).

The relative difficulty in finding GT5 Panteras may simply be a reflection of the greater tendency of the owners to keep their cars locked up out of sight and to never sell them. Or perhaps they were crashed and written off at a higher rate.

Without the factory records we just do not know which VIN to start counting from. My starting to count from 9100 is just an educated guess, and the only evidence I have for the first factory-recognized GT5 being 9250 is the reference in the Matt Stone and Rob de la Rive Box book.

I am starting to be a bit sceptical about the Stone and de la Rive Box assertion for two reasons. First, I have found so many Panteras between 9100 and 9250 with the GT5 body style that it is becoming hard to believe they were all conversions, or that the factory built so many re-bodied GT4s before deciding to start giving them a new model designation. Second, I personally inspected and photographed 9250 in Australia, and it bears no resemblance to the first GT5 that we know had its debut at the 1980 Turin Motor Show.

This is why I have concluded that, for the time being, 240 is the safest number to use as the maximum number of GT5 models that could have been produced. Hopefully more information will be revealed over time so we can be more definitive.

Here is a photo I took of 9250. It is a right hand drive car reportedly imported into Australia by Paul Halstead's company De Tomaso Australia, and owned by his retail outlet The Toy Shop until being sold to the present owner.

De Tomaso Australia was that country's Amerisport. Halstead earned export credits by selling Australian 351C engines to De Tomaso in Italy, and those export credits allowed him to import Panteras minus the engines. He then installed the Australian engines in them and sold them through The Toy Shop.

9250_resized

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I have only noted 14, but I am pretty conservative - unless I see an Amerisport badge in the photos or have some other evidence, I do not record a car as an Amerisport. Just because a car has an Amerisport wing, or gills, for example, is not sufficient evidence for me because those can be retrofitted.

Kirk did promise me a few years ago that he would go through his records, which are buried somewhere in his home, but he has not done so yet. He is a very busy guy. I might give him a call by way of friendly reminder.
quote:
Originally posted by Bosswrench:
Great work, Peter! Do you happen to know how many GT5-S cars on your list are also Amerisports? I once asked Kirk Evans and even he (the actual builder) didn't know! His estimate was 'less than 50'.


I have only 14 that are positively identified as Amerisports. Kirk still has his records, but he told me they are buried and it would take a lot of time to dig them up and go through them.
quote:
Originally posted by lashss:
Peter, how many 9000 serial numbers were unused?

I've always wondered why there always appear to be more GT5-S cars "around" than GT5s.

This thread could shed some light onto the subject.

LSJ



As far as I know only the numbers 9563 to 9600, inclusive, were not used. [since I wrote this I found out that the VIN 9600 was, in fact, used for the 90 Si test mule. The gap, therefore, is only from 9563 to 9599, inclusive]

The last VIN in the Pantera run was 9641, which is the De Tomaso museum 90 Si.

Has anyone confirmed concretely that all the numbers were used?

It was very typical of the Italians of the era to skip serial numbers.

It is likely that all of the 9000 series production numbers are lower than what has been considered possible.

Thank you for the effort and research...very interesting subject.

LSJ
There have been a few updates to the 9000 series registry since I last posted, and so I re-ran the numbers for GT5 production today and came up with the following:

Staying with my assumption of VIN 9100 being the earliest possible GT5 (and we know 9374 was the last before the transition to the GT5-S) we get the following:

9374 - 9100 = 274 cars

If you then add mine and the Butler/Zembashis car, there is a maximum of 276 cars that could have been produced. Then we have to subtract the number of GTS, L and various racing Panteras built during that same time, because these other models were produced concurrently within this VIN range. I have found 46 non-GT5 cars so far. Therefore, my current best calculation of the maximum possible number of GT5 Panteras is as follows:

276 - 46 = 230 maximum possible GT5 production

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