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23 replies

GT5-S prices

SharkeySharkeyForum Sponsor - Pantera Miami
With regard to what GT5-Steel cars sell for, heres my 2 cents: buyers like to keep that knowledge between the selling party and themselves. Thats a given. I can go on record and say, they WILL do an honest 150k. I read on the Ferrari Chat Forum where a guy traded a Countach for one. If you don't know, a Countach is north of 250k for a rough/average car, 350k for a mint low mile example. A major collector out west sent an inspector, offered me personally 230k for a GT5-S we have & our unrestored original paint beautiful 1974. I can send anyone a PM if interested in knowing who. I turned it down. GT5-S prices have gone up almost ten grand a month in the last year. Third quarter of 2013 they were 60k, yes. We have a 5Steel Kirk Evans car & a DeTomaso built car both. The deal was for the factory car. Wasn't a month later another client offered 175 for the DeTomaso built alone. Not for sale. He left with the yellow '74 on our websight. I have a list of guys waiting for a nice 5 Steel, cash in hand and ready to pay up. If you know any for sale lets make it go away. Number one priority is no damage, clean, they want a nice nice unaltered car.
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SharkeySharkeyForum Sponsor - Pantera Miami
I saw a rough carbureted black Countach sell outside of Mecum for 160 last year. It's all about numbers, i.e. how many were built. Mangusta is a good example if you watched them they've done stupid $ in the last year. GT-5? We have one belongs to a client here for work, but to my knowledge they've not done what the 5-Steel has. We get zero inquiries for one. I made no reference to GT-5 cars,only 5-Steel. Gt5-S will break the bank. It feel it coming. They made so few. So few Countach, so few Dino 246's, Boxers, Miuras, Daytonas, Mangustas, well you get the picture. Low production cars. How about a Pantera Group 3 prototype? Dennis Quella had one that sold close to [sit down] 500 GRAND. Again, it's all about numbers, i.e rarity. I'm no authority, again it's just my 2 cents. If I had 5 nice unscathed GT5-S cars I could sell them all in 5 phone calls.

quote:
Originally posted by 4NHOTROD:
quote:
With regard to what GT5-Steel cars sell for,

GT5 original cars are fibreglass. Are you referring to GT5 prices or 5S prices? Big difference, IMHO.
Rough Lambo's are selling for $250K?
joulesjoules"Racing is Life, anything before or after is just waiting" - Steve McQueen
The truth is in the actual selling numbers and I know of recent GT5S sales for around $125-135K mark, some lower.

If you can turn them around like you say I suggest you pick up these and flip them;

PI Motorsports GT5S Ebay

gt5sforsale.com

PI Forum Lashdeep GT5S

I'll come back and pick them up for cents on the dollar when the bottom drops out of the market Wink

Julian
markcharltonmarkcharltonOld enough to know better and still young enough not to care. My '71 Pantera
I'll add my opinion to the pile since I too been following GT5-S (hell, ALL DT) sales and prices very closely over the last several years.

I think that there are a number of people promoting very high prices for GT5-S cars. Many of these promoters are sellers as well, and I have to wonder if they are wishing the market up. Yes, they do sell for more than a GT5 and much more than a regular Pantera, but if there are North American sales anywhere close to the $200K range, they are well hidden. The market for all collector cars has risen steeply in the last year but I can't find many opinion pieces that think this trend will continue for much longer before we hear a loud POP.

As much as I love De Tomaso cars (and I do own four), the rest of the world (especially the rich crowd) loves Lamborghinis more, and a Countach will almost always out-sell a Pantera. It is NOT (IMHO) ONLY about numbers, but design, rarity, heritage and lust.

Mark
(ready with my pennies to out-bid Julian) Big Grin
gilles027gilles027Member
Well i think it is sick that the GT5s rises as long as it is based on the common Pantera, just put some fenders on.

Same with the Porsche 2,7 RS, they have smashed the a million dollar barrier. I had a lot of 911 kept them liked them but I will never go for such a car for a million dollar, no way. It is based on the VW Beetle from 1935, so.

My conclusion is that the market has gone completly mad.

Look at hagerty at the Shelby GT500 prices. Were high when Vin Diesel drove the Eleanor in F&F 1-10 and then dropped like a stone from $200k to $100k within a second, because people did recon that on its native sheer base it is a Ford Mustang that you can get for as little as $1000 around the corner.

Oh I have a Pantera and a Porsche and other cars so don't get me wrong. They are worth some money but not what is payed now for them. And in the instant the traders leave the car market and go for art or gold or retro smart phones or something else all this fantasy car prices will go back to what they were 10 years ago.
S simonMember
quote:
Originally posted by gilles027:
Well i think it is sick that the GT5s rises as long as it is based on the common Pantera, just put some fenders on.

Same with the Porsche 2,7 RS, they have smashed the a million dollar barrier. I had a lot of 911 kept them liked them but I will never go for such a car for a million dollar, no way. It is based on the VW Beetle from 1935, so.

My conclusion is that the market has gone completly mad.

Look at hagerty at the Shelby GT500 prices. Were high when Vin Diesel drove the Eleanor in F&F 1-10 and then dropped like a stone from $200k to $100k within a second, because people did recon that on its native sheer base it is a Ford Mustang that you can get for as little as $1000 around the corner.

Oh I have a Pantera and a Porsche and other cars so don't get me wrong. They are worth some money but not what is payed now for them. And in the instant the traders leave the car market and go for art or gold or retro smart phones or something else all this fantasy car prices will go back to what they were 10 years ago.


A GT5-S Pantera is not a common Pantera whit wider fenders on ,it has a different chassis,inner fenders floors,low production.
A Porsche 2,7 RS has an other history than a regular 911
A real good documentated Shelby 67'GT500 go's for much more than $100k
Cars are wordt what people pay for, the same as whit real estate.
Into the past race cars are rebuild to street cars,now a race car whit history brings big money.
And yes maybe the market is mad but do you sell your Pantera for less $$$ than what you have paid for?
This is just what I am thinking,
Simon
gilles027gilles027Member
You are right Simon, it is not completly the same and I did overdraw in my posting to explain my point of view.

And yes a GT 500 sells for $100k but comes from $250k, so LOSS $150k within seconds. This is what is definitly going to happen once again in a period of month or maybe years, that the market drops like hell.

Remember what happend when Enzo died and where we were 5 years later with the prices. It's the law of gravity, what goes up must come down.

If I would sell for less, well if I want/have to sell and the market demands, yes. What else could you do, wait? Most of the people that bought in the Enzo Ferrari booble when Enzo died 1988 died before the prices did reach that levels again.

By the way i think it was Stallone in demolition man with the Eleanor. ;-)
gilles027gilles027Member
Oh yes, as you say, real estate. The next pentabooble over here in europe.
One square meter in average situation in stuttgart for $8.000 right now.

Ask the people from the US what they paid for and what the banks told same years later their real estate is worth.

Same will happen to most of the cars. Not to the really rare ones like the Bugatti Atlantique... but all others.
A Pantera GT5S will see the 100k from down as the countach will go lower then 150k in 5 years. It was always this way and will always be that way.
And people are way to optimistic to think this law of nature would change THIS TIME.
R 1Rocketship (Guest)
quote:
Originally posted by gilles027:
Oh yes, as you say, real estate. The next pentabooble over here in europe.
One square meter in average situation in stuttgart for $8.000 right now.

Ask the people from the US what they paid for and what the banks told same years later their real estate is worth.

Same will happen to most of the cars. Not to the really rare ones like the Bugatti Atlantique... but all others.
A Pantera GT5S will see the 100k from down as the countach will go lower then 150k in 5 years. It was always this way and will always be that way.
And people are way to optimistic to think this law of nature would change THIS TIME.
A Lamborghini Countach lower than 150K in 5 years ( 2020).....In 5 years a Lamborghini Countach will be at LEAST DOUBLE of 150K as they are NOW!

You are definitely in the "Sky is Falling" category.

Here are "Bullet Proof" car investments...

Porsche 356
Jaguar XKE Coupes
Maserati Ghibli
Mercedes 190 Sl
Lamborghini Countach
Ferrari Testarossa
Detomaso Pantera
DeTomaso Mangusta
gilles027gilles027Member
I am just realistic. I have seen this before so often. I don't mind if it happens but it does frequently.

190SL, too old, people that were young when these cars were en vogue are in their 90s now.
Same with porsche 356, has seen its best days.

The others? maybe an investment, maybe not.

No i don't have no countach for 150k but we will see this again.

Panteras are still sold for less then the new price 1972 if you figure out the loss of purchase power of the dollar from the 70s that exceeds 90%.
So I am not sky is falling, I am an opportunist, not more.

Dollar loss of purch power
R 1Rocketship (Guest)
quote:
Originally posted by gilles027:
I am just realistic. I have seen this before so often. I don't mind if it happens but it does frequently.

190SL, too old, people that were young when these cars were en vogue are in their 90s now.
Same with porsche 356, has seen its best days.

The others? maybe an investment, maybe not.

No i don't have no countach for 150k but we will see this again.

Panteras are still sold for less then the new price 1972 if you figure out the loss of purchase power of the dollar from the 70s that exceeds 90%.
So I am not sky is falling, I am an opportunist, not more.

Dollar loss of purch power
With Porsche 356 speedsters in the $100,000+++ range as also the Mercedes 190SL, it ISN'T "old" people acquiring these cars but rather car enthusiasts of ALL ages.
Age is NOT a limiting factor for car appreciate nor acquisition.
I'm 58 years "young"...own 15 sportscars from a 1991 Ferrari Testarossa to a 1959 Austin Healey BN6. Have made money on EVERY car I own, some even tripling in value.
Are there cars I believe are "Over Valued"?!...Most assuredly.

I'll use current Ferrari Dino prices as an example. Thus the reason, I would NOT be seeking a Ferrari Dino as an "investment".

I believe currently a well bought 1963 Corvette Split Window Coupe is an "Excellent Investment" as is a 1967 Corvette Coupe 427/435hp Tri-Power, 4 speed with factory sidepipes.

Blue Chip investments in my opinion...Your mileage may vary...Mark
R 1Rocketship (Guest)
quote:
Originally posted by 1Rocketship:
quote:
Originally posted by gilles027:
I am just realistic. I have seen this before so often. I don't mind if it happens but it does frequently.

190SL, too old, people that were young when these cars were en vogue are in their 90s now.
Same with porsche 356, has seen its best days.

The others? maybe an investment, maybe not.

No i don't have no countach for 150k but we will see this again.

Panteras are still sold for less then the new price 1972 if you figure out the loss of purchase power of the dollar from the 70s that exceeds 90%.
So I am not sky is falling, I am an opportunist, not more.

Dollar loss of purch power
With Porsche 356 speedsters in the $100,000+++ range as also the Mercedes 190SL, it ISN'T "old" people acquiring these cars but rather car enthusiasts of ALL ages.
Age is NOT a limiting factor for car appreciate nor acquisition.
I'm 58 years "young"...own 15 sportscars from a 1991 Ferrari Testarossa to a 1959 Austin Healey BN6. Have made money on EVERY car I own, some even tripling in value.

My 2 most recent purchases in the last month include a 1972 Lotus Elan Plus 2 & a 1959 MGA convertible. Both cars I fully believe has tremendous potential for appreciation!

Are there cars I believe are "Over Valued"?!...Most assuredly.

I'll use current Ferrari Dino prices as an example. Thus the reason, I would NOT be seeking a Ferrari Dino as an "investment".

I believe currently a well bought 1963 Corvette Split Window Coupe is an "Excellent Investment" as is a 1967 Corvette Coupe 427/435hp Tri-Power, 4 speed with factory sidepipes.

Blue Chip investments in my opinion...Your mileage may vary...Mark
gilles027gilles027Member
Ah Mark, now you say 356 Speedster.
This is a rare car that can not easily reproduced from a common 356, this one will make some more money maybe.
I am not a dealer, anyway I have had cars that trippled their price also (lately sold a 964 Speedster).
All I think is that we are climbing too high right now and that the market will fall.

You are 58, well I am sorry for that, I am 42. ;-)
gilles027gilles027Member
Well one more.
I can tell you that the buyers have changed dramatically in the past few month/year over here in europe. People are afraid of loosing their money all over the world.
A lot of the new buyers do not even want to drive, they have no clue of the cars history, neither of the condition.
They are told by their bank manager to look for service book, how many hands, blalblalbla. But most of them are no car enthusiasts, they just want to make 10% profit every year.
This will not work for long I am telling you. And if these people recon what it means to keep a 40 year old car and that it is just 1 ton of steel worth 900 bucks they will try to get rid of it.
markcharltonmarkcharltonOld enough to know better and still young enough not to care. My '71 Pantera
quote:
Originally posted by gilles027:
This will not work for long I am telling you. And if these people recon what it means to keep a 40 year old car and that it is just 1 ton of steel worth 900 bucks they will try to get rid of it.


I will be there for them in their time of need.

Mark

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