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Hi all, I'm wondering if any of you might be able to ballpark what the range in cost might be on repairing the undercarriage of a Pantera I have my eye on. I realize this isn't an exact science; a low and high guesstimate would be great for replacing sheet metal and coating. Thanks much for any thoughts!

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thanks, comp2. I don't expect it to be "cheap". I need to come up with a decent estimate, if I'm going to make an offer on the car. I'm guessing the minimum on undercarriage restoration would be around 6k. i need to figure out a GUESStimate of a top end. 10k? 15k? 20k? I recognize that I'm playing a game of probabilities here, not precise measurements. thanks for any guesses on that top end dollar figure!
quote:
Originally posted by RJK:
thanks, comp2. I don't expect it to be "cheap". I need to come up with a decent estimate, if I'm going to make an offer on the car. I'm guessing the minimum on undercarriage restoration would be around 6k. i need to figure out a GUESStimate of a top end. 10k? 15k? 20k? I recognize that I'm playing a game of probabilities here, not precise measurements. thanks for any guesses on that top end dollar figure!


If one area is that bad, several other areas will be bad as well. I think the first thing would be to asses all the bad areas; not just one. If you are paying someone to do the work it's hard to say if the metal work will be $20K or $50K. If you do it your self, it's a labor of love:

http://www.rc-tech.net/pantera1/upright/ru.htm
If you wany to see what you might be getting into, look for the thread by UFO LOW.

Rodney did a great job in documenting a lot of the metalwork he is doing. You will see the complexity of his task, and the high quality he put into the repairs.

Here is the thread, unfortunately, photobucket scrubbed all the linked photos out.... Dammit!

UFO LOW's Restoration Thread!

Take a look, make a time estimate, and then multiply that by your shop's labor rate.

500 Hr. at $100/Hr. = $50K

It can add up quick.

Buy the best car you can, you'll be money ahead,,,,


Rocky
Last edited by rocky
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Do other cars have zerk fittings on the lower A-Arm bushings?

Dennis Quella installed zerks on 2511 when he restored it in the mid nineties for a previous owner.

He also upgraded to his poly graphite A-arm bushings and I believe from the photo they are what is installed on that A-arm. The photo bushings do not have any squish or cracking which would be reasonable on a poorly maintained car still using rubber bushings.

Larry
My $0.02.

First, the amount of rust is always 3x what you think it is
Secondly, why not learn to weld? It's fun, it's just easy with modern equipment. And it means you don't have to leave your car and wallet at some jerk trying to get rich on your money. Being able to weld also means you can make your own tools. "Step though, this is a threshold moment". The Toecutter in Mad Max
On a more positive note, the area photographed is notorious for rust as there is a water trap there, most owners drill drain holes to prevent build up of dirt and moisture.

I had to replace one side (albeit not as bad as the photo) on my '74, and that was the only rust on the car.

It's worth conducting a thorough inspection to assess the true condition and then it just comes down to what price you can get the car for. Basket projects can fetch mid $30's as evidenced by the green barn find recently and that car was obviously full of tin worm.

Julian
That job is ~not~ a big deal. Just have to have your mind right. You can bust that apart & be welding the next morning. It's on the passenger side, meaning no gas tank or gas fumes to go up while welding. Hall sells the panel made up for 350 dollars: Remove the half shaft bolts, knock the ball joint lose, remove shock, remove lower control arm nuts & punch out the upper & lower control arm bolts from the body, lift assembly off as a unit & set it aside. Now it's time to rock on. Weld three or four temporary angle iron braces to keep the body stiff & in position prior to cutting the panel out. Cut/grind/form the new panel to fit, undercoat, reassemble. Job done. Unless of course you need to replace control arm bushings & update or free up the lower shaft. Sand blast everything & powder coat. The job is only as easy or difficult as you make it, you have to have your mind right. Just knock it apart. Like the 'ole Man always said, if you think you can or think you can't....you're right.
Wow I'm surprised by how many think an amateur can repair all that rust. Rust and metal repair is an art. It takes a lot more skill than is being presented here. As has been stated, there's a ton more where that came from. At best, that car will be a hack job after it's all done. Buy it for parts, nothing more, you'll never get your money out of it.
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Wow I'm surprised by how many think an amateur can repair all that rust. Rust and metal repair is an art.

I beg to differ, there's no "art" in this, it's a skill most people good with their hands can do.
My $0.02: With modern equipment the process of making a single weld spot solid has never been easier. The machine feels the resistance or something and adjust current, and it also sends extra CO2 after button is released to cool down immediately, and other stuff. I don't know all the details, but when I recently replaced my welder, it was a whole new world. The old analogue ESAB had me learn a lot of "moves" to get a weld solid. The new MigaTronic you just enter a setting on material and thickness and it does most for you.

The hard part these days about welding is to me the fabrication of the replacement metal to be welded in. A flat piece is easy, a curved/bent one can take hours to produce. But the good thing is, if you get it wrong, just throw it away and try again, before you weld it in.

Welding requires a lot of patience. It always takes longer than you think. So you can't be in a hurry. But if you have the time, go for it. Also if you source it out, a welder on a fixed charge will not do as good a job as one on hourly pay.

Last, remember what you're welding on. Normally you'd want to do a proper job, obviously, both so rust will never reappear there, also so the needed amount of filler is as little as possible.

How long does it take to repair a rust hole? Depends. A lot! I've welded for many years. Two extremes. I welded a new front footwell in my orig 68 Camaro. I wanted it invisible, both from above and beneath. It took me 2 days, 1½ of those days was used bending the new metal to have the same profiles as orig. A little crazy perhaps as the carpet made these profiles invisible, and not many people looked at the car from beneath. The other extreme was a rusty Jeep Grand Cherokee I got for no money, just to get it legal I did 22 patches in less than 2 days. Pretty? No. Solid and legal? Yes. I still have that Jeep 5 years later, none of the rust I fixed has come back, but new rust has appeared, it's a constant battle Smiler Of course, for a Pantera, you want the best rust repair you can get.

So, there can be many good reasons to let a pro do the job. Lack of time, and too much money. But don't be fooled by "it's an art", no it's a skill, and a pretty simple one at that (just compare to painting a car, now that's complex IMO). And a skill you never regret taking the time to learn. But it's also messy, dirty, a fire hazard.

All that said, with regards to the Pantera looked at here, if it's possible to go over (under) it with a pointy hammer to find all rust, fine, if seller doesn't allow (which is understandable) I wouldn't buy it. Good luck
The biggest skill in metal work is . . . The desire to want to do and learn it. If you enjoy it and are fairly intuitive, it can be learned. If it is simply a job on the list to be done and not something your really excited about, then metal work is a lot harder.

For those of us who "get into it" it seems to come naturally.

I have a problem with the photo in the first post. If it is that bad in that single area, touching that car could open up a can of worms that will consume someone for years. That photo would lead me to believe it will have a lot more problems than just that area.

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