Heater core - keeping it cozy

Modifications I suggest you consider:

1)   Positive shut offs in the engine bay, so that you can disconnect the heater completely when you’re out on the track.

2)  Stainless steel bungs welded into your stainless steel tubes under the car so that you can completely drain the cooling system.

3)  Pet cocks in the engine block so that you can more easily drain the engine versus dealing with those square headed pipe plugs.  (Suggested by Tberg, I think?)

4) A nice quarter turn petcock in the bottom left corner of your radiator with the nice flexible tube so that you can open it up, and get most of the fluid out of the system without pouring it into your front valance.

I might think of more stuff too, but the above have all been good modifications (that I have used) on my car…

Rocky

@rocky I am wondering what I will come out of the cooling system once I open it up…

So far I had Maple syrup in the gas tank and Coca-Cola for brake fluid….

I am fearing for double fried bean soup…

Well, once it’s done, it will be done!

The segment going into  the water pump in front of the engine is always a challenge…. It’s good you will have a lift and lots of previous expertise!

Let us know what you find!  Maybe there will be those eyeless cave-fish that have evolved living In darkness!

You guys have a front row seat in the comfort of your home to enjoy my findings… the good, the bad and the ugly!

But as @rocky said “..once it’s done, it will be done!” and it will be a “peace of mind” that the car will be as reliable, as I can make it!
i’m quite certain that the water pump would start puking after that long of a time just sitting! I am just afraid that I see stuff like I saw on high $ cars -gorgeous as they are- under the pretty skin rust took over and water passages were filled, packed, blocked with rust and rubbish so deep you could not even penetrate with a screwdriver…  

so much for preserving your investment by not driving it!

And if that happens…. 😱🤢🤮

One must do is to replace the rubber hose connections that sit near your right foot with stainless braided lines.  Keeps your foot from being burned if a rubber one let's go.

I went thru the entire cooling system while the engine was out. 

I removed the heater valve up front and joined the two cooling tubes with a rubber hose.  Then I used a pressure sprayer at the rear of the car to clean the tubes. 

Pics of the gunk in the cooling system after sitting in storage for 37 years.

John

I think I’m gonna retire those welded in metal tubes! Going to run steel braided under the car…. at least that’s my thought right now!

Surprisingly enough my cooling system had green antifreeze in it - just wow - what a surprise 😮

but what’s behind the shut off valves to the heater core… Surprise… I will open them tomorrow…

this thread goes parallel with my other thread :

https://pantera.infopop.cc/top...to-rear-blow-to-suck

OMG

I feel like Captain Kirk!!!

I’m going where no man has gone before -

except Luigi and Giuseppe in 1972…..

And just like Captain Kirk -  I do not know if I ever come back….!!!

…where the hell is Scotty…

Here is what I found:

nice 1” crack length wise facing the drivers foot in the 8” hose to the heater core, surrounded with brown evidence of old coolant … just as @panterapatt laid out from a previous experience of his!!!

rusted heater control cables, interesting wiring.. twist and tape, a GM plastic piece that just fell out - landed in garbage can eight seconds later… and lots of dust and dirt… Removing the heater control panels with the cables is a B@&$!!!!!!

lots of old gooop  over all the connectors for the A/C , hard and non-cooperative…

i’m glad I’m very easy tempered! Otherwise, the chainsaw would have come out!  😡🤬🤯

Now that looks familiar.

I replaced the AC Evap, Condenser and cabin fan with Dennis Quella's upgraded versions.  Wasn't cheap and hope it pays off as finishing the AC is on my list before Palooza in May.

John

Forgot to mention.  Now is a good time to check your harnesses and ground terminal point.  I found a few burnt wires that the previous owner had just bypassed instead of pulling the dash and repairing it the correct way.

John

@jwelch68 posted:

Forgot to mention.  Now is a good time to check your harnesses and ground terminal point.  I found a few burnt wires that the previous owner had just bypassed instead of pulling the dash and repairing it the correct way.

John

I agree with you 112%

And I’m gonna drill one and a half inch hole into the box under the windshield that has the grills on top!

stand of pipe going into it 1 inch and some remain on the bottom to hook a tube up

This is what happens when the heater tubes just exist… shut off valves closed and  heater core empty…

those pipes will be retired!! New stainless steel pipes will join the radiator pipes under the car, coupled front and back to stainless, braided Teflon lined hoses! no more heated center console !

working on the heater-A/C core… the original A/C had flared fittings… I am changing to O-rings! New hoses as I found one hose was spliced with a tube and 2 hose clamps! No more Mickey Mouse 💩!!!

Good that you have help.  As someone mentioned, installing the lower radiator hose to the water pump is a bear.   If I remember correctly, it took me 2-3 hours to get it right.

If you learn any tips with the install, feel free to share.

John

Later cars used a curiously curved factory steel pipe that was 2" on the pump end and 1-3/8" on the longitudinal end. The upgraded pipe uses short pieces of straight hose instead of the curved two-size hose. Gary Hall used to sell a duplicate of the hard to find factory part. It also fixed a common problem in the '70s: the gearshift shaft rubbed the original multi- curved rubber hose and sometimes wore a hole in it!

Cleanup …

Now here is the cool news….

brand new, made in USA… tiny factory, well more hole in the wall.. big old machines making the parts! Very cool and an old short guy is as friendly and helpful as possible!

Nice, I'm not sure if that is the same unit that Quella sells but if so, be prepared for some slight modifications to make it fit the original case.

I had to add some holes to make it line up to the case but an easy job.

My evaporator didn't have a spot for the copper probe that guides the thermostat line into the fins.  I ordered a new AC switch and just pushed the metal line/probe into the middle of the fins.

Took some patience but worked out fine.

John

Lol

Is there anything that can be done here without modifications? Simply no! And I don’t want any other way!

Cleaning up under the dash:

Found this taped to the main harness..

Heater core fits perfectly in the box

Still gets new foam..

Test hang for measuring …

The wire for the radio is stock.

I connected mine to power a phone charger socket.

@larryw posted:

The wire for the radio is stock.

I connected mine to power a phone charger socket.

it is life with ignition, correct?

@LeMans850i posted:

it is life with ignition, correct?

Ignition is life!

The radio lead goes to fuse 8, always hot, ignition on or off.

Thank you

heater pipes root-rooter cleaning

that’s about a third, what came out

old choke cable….🤪

When I pulled the rubber heater hose off the two nipples in the engine bay they literally fell apart.  I figured the rest of the hard line couldn't be much better after 50 years so I just capped them off.   I need a heater maybe twice a year in Arizona!   I've been living without a heater just fine now for the last 5 years.  ;-)

I am trying to make my car fully functional.. everything should work - or even be better than original! It’s just would drive me crazy if I know something doesn’t work or isn’t up to sniff…
It’s a disorder 🤪

The upgrade A/C

Yesterday I blocked off the heater pipes running thru the tunnel at the bottom (engine side) and filled them with rust converter.. here is the crazy thing… it seems the pipes crossing inside the tunnel. The right pipe in the cabin becomes the outlet on the left on the engine side and vice versa… ⁉️‼️⁉️

Roland, Yes, you are correct, one of the heater pipes bends.  I took out my heater pipes.  A real PITA.  I will get my hot water from the S/S pipes that go to the radiator.  I had some bungs welded in and will come through the front bulkhead to the heater unit.  I also added bungs to drain.

Larry

I was considering almost the same thing.. coming in next to the condensation drain pipe from the heater box. They would keep all that at the passenger side and leaves enough room for the gas pedal – throttle cable! There is enough room for the crossover under the heater box from the Heater Core

No water really moving in that circuit until the t stat opens, no?  I’d guess the flow might be a little lazy too.

Probably not really an issue in a fair weather car. It’s not like you’ll want much more heat than needed to defog the windshield now and then.

Flow is gonna be nonexistent until thermostat is opening… I’m going to re-commission the pipes inside the tunnel but I’m going with the electric shut off valve Cutting off in and out pipes! I also will  shroud the hoses Between heater core and tunnel pipes so if one lets go the hot water blows into the tunnel…

(am I going to test my theory how I think it will work - NO)😳

I’ve got one of those valves, but mine is cable controlled…. Yours is a better solution…

I also have the drain bungs…. Great addition…. Really helps cooling system maintenance.

Coolant will circulate to the heater during warmup if you supply it from the stock location on the block and water pump, but it just won’t be warm yet…

Rocky

I’m adding a 1 1/2” hose from the vent grill in front of the windshield to the heater-Fan

Panteras competing in the early days had to run cut-off heater flow valves because of the number of failures and injuries to drivers from rupturing that little 3" heater hose under the dash. High rpms on overage hoses were the cause. Passengers have been injured as well depending on how the hose blew.  Some owners didn't even realize there was a breakable hose down there.

We had to use TWO VISIBLE manual valves when competing  because Tech Inspectors had no time to have you pull the firewall door and trace out the plumbing to be sure the valve(s) actually cut off the heater feed. Sure, one valve would theoretically be enough but again, Inspectors were often not Pantera owners. So electric valves were illegal and thus very uncommon.

Good idea. Fresh air is nice if/when the A/C goes out. Early '71 and later '74s had a stock fresh air option with different controls, routed thru the heater boxes. I ran two such cowl holes to big 90 degree copper fittings with home-made throttle valves aimed at the seats (no hoses needed). They were very effective crossing the Mojave desert, as my A/C never made it to and from 'Vegas while operating! Cracking a window makes conversation impossible over 100 mph.

My car has the shut off valves, so normally there is no hot water to the heater core at all. Last January, I had to drive the car on a 28 degree day in light snow. I drove for about 40 minutes and the cabin was comfortably warm. I didn't have to defrost, though, so I might have needed the heater for that, but for simple driving, I see a functioning heater as a pretty low priority.

On my drive yesterday back from Orange CA (all of Southern California!) I drove in hail and rain!! I want all that stuff to work being my daily driver!
I may sound like a wimp but I had enough of that BS when I was living (in Northern California in the foothills,) in my 1974 Pontiac Safari Station Wagon when I came to the States in winter 1995!  I paid my dues!

The major advantage to a valve such as that is, when it’s turned off, no hoses or heater related parts, inside the passenger compartment, are under pressure (positive or negative). It makes shut-off valves redundant and unnecessary.

I am replacing the 3 cables right now for hot and cold… Defrost and so on.. those levers have two holes in them for the cable to hook in! The one closest to the part you push on are used for the on off valve, and it works perfectly to shut it off all the way and open it all the way! The other two go in the other hole, closer to the pivot point! at least for the shut off valve I’m using It works

Received my bypass well today!

My uneducated guess would be it’s better having it still circulating, versus just shutting both pipes off with the Home Depot ball valves…

Installed heater box with new foam seals and new control cables

The upgrade

and another addition: outside air …

that connects to the void under the grill but to the right of the opening so it can’t rain in .. 1” standpipe in work…

New A/C hoses.. clean… the whole system has O-rings… no more flared fittings!

Looking good.

I just finished the same project this weekend.  I don't like the final location of the hoses in the engine bay, so I plan to go at that again when I get time.  Need to add some tension relief on the hoses too.

Also going to hide the wiring when I get time.

First 95F day in PHX so I should be able to test my cooling system and AC while I sit in bumper-to-bumper traffic on the 101, on the way to the monthly Pantera dinner.

John

I left my hoses exposed… detracts from the ugly undercoating.. 😂🤣

also made new ground connections left and right for the tail lights!

Connection flanges for the outside air to the fan..

stand off reaching inside the void under the wiper grill

fan flange slightly offset to clear A/C lines

the 3M windshield glue dried over the weekend nicely-flanges are solid!

The finished fresh air project:

keep leaves and debris out, prefect snug fit but it can still remove it from the inside to clean, O-ring secures it in place!

BUT: how do I clean this area out?

and everything (expansion valve) sealed and insulated!

The theory is that about 25% (4 fan sections in total, one of them fed solely by the hose) of the air moved by the fan is fresh outside air which can be directed with the heater controls to the windshield or down or whatever the flaps are set! Or 100% of whatever air is pushed by the driving speed thru the grill under the windshield with the fan off…

we will see…🤓

A/C got checked for leaks… and passed!

charged now! Success….
mind you… it’s all converted to O-rings - no more flares!! It should last ….

Installed electric shutoff valve..

Nice work!

Now it only has to work nicely..