Help? intermittant won't crank over?

Potentially a bad battery. Has it been tested?

new, it cranked great, no issue once....then the gremlin came back.

Sounds like a possible bad connection somewhere. I've had two similar issues before. One that burned out the starter. The first problem was with the battery cable. Looked perfectly fine on the outside, but the cable strands were loose inside the terminal connection on the solenoid, it had a bad crimp on that end of the cable. I could see the problem till one day it burned the end off while starting.

Another time, a very light layer of corrosion had built up on the battery terminals. Looked fine visually, but was enough to prevent a start.

Moral of the story: check all your connections. Corrosion, bad grounds(battery to frame, frame to engine, etc) bad cables.

thanks for the info, I will do all of the above today. I'll let you know what I find.
Thanks again
Daniel

Daniel,

You may have an issue with the starter interlock. The override switch is mounted in the front trunk, and the control box is under the dash. Someone may have tried to by-pass (or removed) the interlock feature, and didn't do a good job of splicing the wires.

John

...All the Symptoms point directly to the Ignition SWITCH!! IMO
The contacts are 'Burned' and are barely making a Weak-intermittent contact.
Four(4)componants are NOT getting full voltage, full time.
1. The Distributor (weather Points or Electronic Brain...doesn't matter).
2. The Coil.
3. The Starter Solenoid.
4. The Starter MOTOR, itself.

I would test for this by...First Disconnecting The Battery Grounding Cable and Fully CHARGE THE BATTERY UP!! Then Bypass the Ignition Switch, by 'jumping' 12 Volts to the Distributor, and then jump the Solenoid AT the Solenoid.
If Your Battery is Older than 3-4 Years, it is 'on it's way out'! Monitor the Voltage at the Battery, using a Voltmeter/Multimeter....AT the Battery DURING CRANKING. You may also check Cranking Voltage AT the Starter Motor. If the voltage drops below 9 Volts (AT the Battery) During Cranking, the Battery is Not capable of doing the job.

The Engine should crank over and fire right up.

If the engine does not crank, check the battery cables and the Connections! If battery does not deliver Voltage, Replace Battery.
If the engine cranks and does Not FIRE-UP, Check for Spark AT THE SPARK PLUG, And check for Fuel at the Carb Throat when the Accelerator Pump is Actuated.

This should give You a starting point to work from and a Direction to Search in!

Let us know what You find and we'll work on the problem from there!

Good-Luck!
Marlin

Okay, more info, the battery is 900cca, new, fully charged took it out of the 512. Not familiar with a starter interlock? under the front trunk, approx. where? what does it look like? and the control box, what does it look like? and approx where? Not to be a total dummy.
Again the key "on" gave me a red ign. light and cranked. Then "on" no light, dead. 5 or 6 times, later on, does it all over again.Had ign voltage at the solonoid, then did'nt. when I did have voltage, it clicked but no crank. then mysteriously gone. fricken gremlins

one multimedicie to many problems is to check the engine groundcable condition.
(on my car everything was working, but poorly for ex. my engine crancked very very slowy when i turnded the key. New cable from the engine to the chassie, now crancks fine...and everything else too

Marlin is right. You have a bad connection.
Do the tests he suggested

The P car uses the Mustang/Ford starter relay.

Go right to the relay and jump the big two terminals with the handles of pliers. It will spark like heck but the starter should work right from that point.

If it works there, then get a remote starter switch and connect one end to the big wire coming from the battery, the other to the small terminal that say S. Push the button, does the starter work?

If no, the starter solinoid is done. Replace it.

If yes, then it is one of two things,there is a broken wire in line from the ignition switch to the starter terminal OR (as Marlin says) the ignition switch is burned out.

If the car lays for long periods of time without any use or attention, it may be just the contacts in either are corroded. Both are common.

The ignition switches in these cars were designed to have large voltages run through the ignition switch. That is a bad thing and after 40 years will kill the switch for sure.

Consider installing the Pantera Electronics ignition switch controller. It reduces the loads through the switch. Not convinced. Look at what a new switch is going to cost you and consider you will have to do it again if you don't reduce the loads through it?

I would check the connections at the terminal strip next to the ignition switch. Have seen many with melted connections.
Good luck

Okay, so full voltage at the battery terminal on the solenoid, using a remote starter switch, I can crank over the engine.
Still no power from the ignition switch. lowered the steering column, exposed the back of the switch, NO power to the back of the switch, No power on either side of the power strip block.
Question, where does the power come from, it disappears int the harness, checked all the fuses, they're good. Is there a relay, second fuse box, or?
thanks
Daniel

Daniel,

Not sure about the late cars, but the earlier cars have a splice in the wire loom near the fuse panel. The splice is in the wire that runs from the alternator's battery terminal to the ammeter. There are four pink wires that exit this splice. Two go to the fuse panel, one goes to the headlight switch, and one goes to the ignition switch terminal strip.

John

quote:

Originally posted by jb1490:
Daniel,

Not sure about the late cars, but the earlier cars have a splice in the wire loom near the fuse panel. The splice is in the wire that runs from the alternator's battery terminal to the ammeter. There are four pink wires that exit this splice. Two go to the fuse panel, one goes to the headlight switch, and one goes to the ignition switch terminal strip.

John

Correct. There has to be power at the junction block or the pink wire is broken. Bet you a nickle there is and the ignition switch is burned out.

You can also pick up the red wire to the starter solenoid there. Do a continuity check on it from there to the solenoid.

It probably is fine. The wiring in these harnesses is a marine type and the wire insulation is not normally showing breaks in it yet even at 40 years.

If the wire to the solenoid checks good then jump it to the big pink wire on the block. If the starter works, the starter switch is bad.

No one wants to listen about this part. The tendency is to let these cars lay unattended to now for long periods of time. When people come back to start them after a year of forgottenness, they have to jump the battery and generally give the starter switch a heck of a work out.

The original wiring design brings virtually the entire electrical load of the car through the switch on brass contacts too small to handle the load consistantly.

Eventually you will go past burning them. You will melt through them.

Load needs to be rerouted through it. The new design removes over 50% of the unneeded load.

If you don't care you can count on now replacing this switch every couple of years. What is it, $300 now? Just a heads up.

If you loose your ignition switch in the middle of no where on a road trip, better get a week rate from the hotel. It's going to be a while you are waiting to get the car back?

quote:

Reply

Thank you, tomorrow I will trace the pink wires, I did see a alot of them, junction if u will at the fuse box. I will test all of the above suggestions, good thing I like pink.
Daniel

Out of curiosity I tested a ford starter relay. It draws 3 amps. I'm currently running a power master 9162 starter which has a built in solenoid. However it requires an external relay to operate the solenoid due to the current requirement. I'm using a Bosch style 5 pin automotive relay for that. It draws .15 amps. Certainly removes quite a bit of load off of the starter switch. A stock ford starter can be wired the same way. Ignition sw to Bosch relay, then that powers the starter relay.

Got it!!!!! Tried all of the above, test, re test, check for broken wires, etc. Spoke with Jon at Pantera electronics, he new the answer in less than a minute.
AMP Gauge,,,,, Yep, he was right, connections were perfect, tight and clean. less the melted rubber boot and burn marks.
The nuts were tight with star washers, jumped the two 6g wires together, Varoom! started right up.
Jon said the gauges are known for intermal failures, common.
Thanks Jon for pointing the way, and every one else for you help.
Daniel

quote:

Originally posted by Daniel #9191:
Got it!!!!! Tried all of the above, test, re test, check for broken wires, etc. Spoke with Jon at Pantera electronics, he new the answer in less than a minute.
AMP Gauge,,,,, Yep, he was right, connections were perfect, tight and clean. less the melted rubber boot and burn marks.
The nuts were tight with star washers, jumped the two 6g wires together, Varoom! started right up.
Jon said the gauges are known for intermal failures, common.
Thanks Jon for pointing the way, and every one else for your help.
Daniel

There are people that put a shunt across the terminals to stop the needle from bouncing, it also helps lower the amps across it. Good luck
Do a search on here or pantera place.