Skip to main content

57 replies

How should I be driving my engine?

G Guest
My new 72 Pre-L Snow White has one hell of an engine.

What I know it it cost $26,000 in parts alone, carillo rods I think, Scat crank, special Yates C3L tall heads, custom exhaust, ITB's (individual throttle bodies) so it has those 8 sexy velocity stacks under the air cleaners, 10.5 compression pistons, but controlled by Haltech with modern fuel injectors. Apparently the cam is a pretty hot cam, but the injection has the idle ticking over more smoothly, but when you floor it, OH MAN does this thing go! All this is supposed to be older Nascar engine stuff. My guess is between 500-600 horsepower, for real.
Heads are Yates C3L, and require specail manifold and headers, Jesel rockers (aparrently big $$$) solid roller cam (although the motor runs quiet as a mouse-Roger said he'd adjusted the valves 3 week ago) which surprises me because I could ALWAYS hear a solid lifter motor from the clacking lifters.

The engine is deceiving because the idle is not lopey and rough, but when you push the go-peal it fricking hauls the mail!

SO, my question is this. I have this awesome race engine in my car, probably 500-plus whp, and I'm driving all easy on it (mainly because I'm waiting fot the oil temps to get up to operating temps), but does it matter how I drive this engine?

Should i be winding it out to redline to keep the motor happy, or is it content with my normal driving around with the occasional "run through the gears" or occasional showing off, or God forbid, a street race?

The engine's a full blown Nascar style race engine, I;m just wanting to know what it prefers as far as how it's driven.

Any thoughts or advice is greatly appreciated,

Mike
Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

panteradougpanteradougMember
quote:
Originally posted by mike the snake:
My new 72 Pre-L Snow White has one hell of an engine.

What I know it it cost $26,000 in parts alone, carillo rods I think, Scat crank, special Yates C3L tall heads, custom exhaust, ITB's (individual throttle bodies) so it has those 8 sexy velocity stacks under the air cleaners, 10.5 compression pistons, but controlled by Haltech with modern fuel injectors. Apparently the cam is a pretty hot cam, but the injection has the idle ticking over more smoothly, but when you floor it, OH MAN does this thing go! All this is supposed to be older Nascar engine stuff. My guess is between 500-600 horsepower, for real.
Heads are Yates C3L, and require specail manifold and headers, Jesel rockers (aparrently big $$$) solid roller cam (although the motor runs quiet as a mouse-Roger said he'd adjusted the valves 3 week ago) which surprises me because I could ALWAYS hear a solid lifter motor from the clacking lifters.

The engine is deceiving because the idle is not lopey and rough, but when you push the go-peal it fricking hauls the mail!

SO, my question is this. I have this awesome race engine in my car, probably 500-plus whp, and I'm driving all easy on it (mainly because I'm waiting fot the oil temps to get up to operating temps), but does it matter how I drive this engine?

Should i be winding it out to redline to keep the motor happy, or is it content with my normal driving around with the occasional "run through the gears" or occasional showing off, or God forbid, a street race?

The engine's a full blown Nascar style race engine, I;m just wanting to know what it prefers as far as how it's driven.

Any thoughts or advice is greatly appreciated,

Mike


NASCAR engines get completely rebuilt after every race.

Are you sure this is a solid lifter engine? Lots of people are using cam grinds similar to the CompCams "Weber" grind, because of the IR intake. Hydraulic roller lifter cams are very popular too.

If you know what you are doing with solid lifters, they will be much quieter than the old "anti-pump up" hydraulic lifters.



The biggest issue with these engines is going to be the valve springs.

If you are into over .600" valve lifts, roller lifters, then you probably have very high spring rates.

Springs these days are MUCH better than those of the '60s BUT the higher the valve lift and the higher the spring rates, the quicker they will wear out.

You can't put a mileage figure on that. Here today...gone tomorrow. Just hope you don't drop a valve and wreck those nice heads?

Other than that, it is made to beat on. Clevelands can make power, big power, but you have to drive them like you hate them.



It probably is quite capable of mid 8,000 rpm runs BUT if you drive it like that, you will break parts. Especially in the valve train and that can get very, very expensive instantaneously.
Last edited by panteradoug
garth66garth66"When speed is the only thing that counts"
Let it get up to operating temperature before romping on it too hard. After that, drive the hell out of it! But also remember, there's an old saying that "nothing good happens over 6,000 RPM." The engine may be able to handle it, but you don't want to spend too much time there. The Cleveland has a heavy valve train, and as Doug already pointed out, a breakage can be expensive.
garth66garth66"When speed is the only thing that counts"
quote:
The Cleveland has a heavy valve train, and as Doug already pointed out, a breakage can be expensive.

FWIW, my fresh 383 stroker suffered a broken valve spring - the Beehive variety so no damper to hold the valve up. It resulted in a complete rebuild AGAIN and expensive work to repair my head.

Granted, my spring broke not because I was too hard on her, but because some of the springs were out of spec and suffered a coil bind situation despite the lift they should have been capable of supporting.
MT mike the snake (Guest)
Thanks for the reply.

I know, with my old Porsche race engine, it was built to b handle really high RPM's, but at the highest RPM's it was a 10-hour engine. Lower the rev-limit 1k or 2k lower and it became a 100 hour engine.

The same applies I'm sure to the engine in my car.

Here's a pic of the cam specs, I know Roger told me it was a solid roller cam for SURE, NO hydrolic.

Maybe someone can interpret these specs and tell me a little bit about my engine?



quote:
Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
quote:
Originally posted by mike the snake:
My new 72 Pre-L Snow White has one hell of an engine.

What I know it it cost $26,000 in parts alone, carillo rods I think, Scat crank, special Yates C3L tall heads, custom exhaust, ITB's (individual throttle bodies) so it has those 8 sexy velocity stacks under the air cleaners, 10.5 compression pistons, but controlled by Haltech with modern fuel injectors. Apparently the cam is a pretty hot cam, but the injection has the idle ticking over more smoothly, but when you floor it, OH MAN does this thing go! All this is supposed to be older Nascar engine stuff. My guess is between 500-600 horsepower, for real.
Heads are Yates C3L, and require specail manifold and headers, Jesel rockers (aparrently big $$$) solid roller cam (although the motor runs quiet as a mouse-Roger said he'd adjusted the valves 3 week ago) which surprises me because I could ALWAYS hear a solid lifter motor from the clacking lifters.

The engine is deceiving because the idle is not lopey and rough, but when you push the go-peal it fricking hauls the mail!

SO, my question is this. I have this awesome race engine in my car, probably 500-plus whp, and I'm driving all easy on it (mainly because I'm waiting fot the oil temps to get up to operating temps), but does it matter how I drive this engine?

Should i be winding it out to redline to keep the motor happy, or is it content with my normal driving around with the occasional "run through the gears" or occasional showing off, or God forbid, a street race?

The engine's a full blown Nascar style race engine, I;m just wanting to know what it prefers as far as how it's driven.

Any thoughts or advice is greatly appreciated,

Mike


NASCAR engines get completely rebuilt after every race.

Are you sure this is a solid lifter engine? Lots of people are using cam grinds similar to the CompCams "Weber" grind, because of the IR intake. Hydraulic roller lifter cams are very popular too.

If you know what you are doing with solid lifters, they will be much quieter than the old "anti-pump up" hydraulic lifters.



The biggest issue with these engines is going to be the valve spring rates.

If you are into over .600" valve lifts, roller lifters, then you probably have very high spring rates.

Springs these days are MUCH better than those of the '60s BUT the higher the valve lift and the higher the spring rates, the quicker they will wear out.

You can't put a mileage figure on that. Here today...gone tomorrow. Just hope you don't drop a valve and wreck those nice heads?

Other than that, it is made to beat on. Clevelands can make power, big power, but you have to drive them like you hate them.



It probably is quite capable of mid 8,000 rpm runs BUT if you drive it like that, you will break parts. Especially in the valve train and that can get very, very expensive instantaneously.

Attachments

Hide
Images (1)
  • camspecs1
MT mike the snake (Guest)
I guess I'm asking if I should drive it like I stole it, or if it would be fine just driven normally.

I'm wondering if the rpm's aren't kept high that I'll gum up the rings or if it's just an engine, and will last long if I putt around and won't last as long if I rev it to 7000 all the time, or if I should occasionally give it the "Italian Tune-Up" and beat on it occasionally to avoid carbon buildups.

These days, I save the hot-rod driving for the track, when street driving I'm usually just driving normally. It's too dangerous to drive fast/race on the streets.

I know Roger regularly tracked Snow White. He told me he used to drive from hs home, to Reno-Fernly, track it all day long, and then drive it home.

He also mentioned he'd adjusted the valves 3 weeks ago, so they won't need attention for a while. How many miles that is, I don't know.
panteradougpanteradougMember
On the subject of warming it up, go by the oil temp, not necessarily the water temp.

Many of the cars are being over cooled. They are running the Aviaid type 10 quart oil pans and the oil is not getting HOT enough.

Pro Stock cars use OIL HEATERS, not coolers, since the engine is set to be optimum with certain clearances. Those are set at specific oil temperatures.

That is more important for the bottom end of the engine, i.e., main bearing clearances, oil molecular loadings, etc, but it effects the valve trains also.

Unfortunately you need to determine what the optimum temperature is for your engine.

It's my opinion that 210 to 220 is about right.

If your oil is colder than that you are not warmed up and the thicker oil is putting unnecessary parasitic loads on the reciprocating assembly.

Stay under 6,500 or so and none of this should present any kind of an issue.



One thing I noticed with heavily loaded race engines is that they kill the viscosity of the oil fast.

Oil pressure on the Pro Stocks will leave the line with 100 psi and come back with 10 psi. They need to change the oil for every run.


NO ONE will ever tell you what rpm those cars are launching at. That is kind of a secret but somewhere in the 9,200 to 9,500 rpm range.

You aren't launching that hard are you?
garth66garth66"When speed is the only thing that counts"
You'll be fine driving it normally, as well as driving it like you stole it. The Cleveland is a very versatile engine. Not like an older Porsche in which you have to rev it up before every shift to avoid damage to the transmission. The IR EFI system in your car really tames that engine and allows you to drive it comfortably in a regular around town way. Carbon fouling plugs shouldn't be an issue as I imagine your car has an electronic ignition. But, never hurts to run it up to 5-6,000 RPM when getting onto the freeway! And a heck of a lot of fun too!
C comp2Member
quote:
Originally posted by PanteraDoug:


Pro Stock cars use OIL HEATERS, not coolers, since the engine is set to be optimum with certain clearances. Those are set at specific oil temperatures.


Funny you should mention that. I got an old worn out Nascar and the oil reservoir has a heater and an electrical extension chord on it.
MT mike the snake (Guest)
Thanks for the advice.

I am VERY anal about warming my engines before pushing them in any way.

All oils are rated at 200-210 degrees, so if you're colder or hotter than that, your oil isn't operating at the weight it's rated at, and could be too thick, or too thin.

Coolant gauges always go right to "your fully warm" within a couple minutes, but it takes 10-15 minutes for the oil to actually get up to temp.

Snow White has an oil temp gauge, and she runs between 200-230 depending on how I'm driving.

I'm very aware that too cool oil is just as bad, or worse than too hot (within reason) on engines.

I always start Snow White, and let her warm up, idling, for 5 minutes or so, and then I drive VERY easy (under 2000rpm) until I see the oil temps up near 200, then I know it's "Go Time!"

My last car, (Subaru BRZ) ran on 0-20 (basically water) and cold idle pressures were around 120lbs. Once above 200 the idle pressures were very low, like 5 or 10lbs.

Many people on the Subaru forum reported being SO HAPPY after installing their oil coolers because the oil temps now never went over 160. I told them many times that's way too cool, and you want to run your oil temps at 200-220 optimally.

My old Porshe race car had an oil cooler that was bigger than most radiators, but it was built to run at 100% on a 100 degree day at the track. I literally taped over 90% of the cooler to get my oil temps up to 210 on the cooler days.
R 1Rocketship (Guest)
If you have receipts for the engine components, just reference the Jesel rocker arms serial/parts number to confirm if they are adjustable for a solid cam, or just remove the oil filler cap, this might provide you a visual confirmation, or remove a valve cover....Mark
MT mike the snake (Guest)
I believe Roger with no doubt. When I asked him he said it was a solid roller cam, and he had just adjusted the valves 3 weeks ago, so I KNOW it's a solid roller cam engine.



quote:
Originally posted by 1Rocketship:
If you have receipts for the engine components, just reference the Jesel rocker arms serial/parts number to confirm if they are adjustable for a solid cam, or just remove the oil filler cap, this might provide you a visual confirmation, or remove a valve cover....Mark
MT mike the snake (Guest)
Roger even mentioned "the gearbox doesn't leak a drop of oil. If you see a drop or 2 of oil on the garage floor, it's from the cork valve covers weeping, because he ran that style valve cover so adjusting the valves didn't include ungluing the valve covers every time they needed to be removed for valve adjustments.

Unfortunately, all the old records and information on the car got lost or thrown out or something like that.

What I got with the car was a Haltech booklet, the cam spec sheet, and a small bag of spare parts.
panteradougpanteradougMember
quote:
Originally posted by mike the snake:

My old Porshe race car had an oil cooler that was bigger than most radiators, but it was built to run at 100% on a 100 degree day at the track. I literally taped over 90% of the cooler to get my oil temps up to 210 on the cooler days.


Simpler than that, use a thermostat on the oil cooler lines.

Most people are WAY over cooled and the oil stays around 175 to 180.

I say 210 to 220 is just about right. This will also boil out a lot of the moisture in it too.

That and a properly designed PCV system which is not easy to do on an IR manifold with a not very strong idle signal.



I've also been able to pick up a couple of inches at idle when the oil is hot.



What do you do with the seven dwarfs?
MT mike the snake (Guest)
It's decieving! The injection has the idle sounding fairly tame, engine rolls smooth, idle doesn't shake, but MAN, I punched it full throttle for the first time giving a friend a ride merging onto the freeway, and Holy Shit! Scared the both of us! I was white knuckling the wheel, because I knew the car was right on the edge of breaking loose. We merged at maybe 100-120mph, and then I shifted into 3rd gear! LOL The thing is a beast.



quote:
Originally posted by garth66:
You'll be fine driving it normally, as well as driving it like you stole it. The Cleveland is a very versatile engine. Not like an older Porsche in which you have to rev it up before every shift to avoid damage to the transmission. The IR EFI system in your car really tames that engine and allows you to drive it comfortably in a regular around town way. Carbon fouling plugs shouldn't be an issue as I imagine your car has an electronic ignition. But, never hurts to run it up to 5-6,000 RPM when getting onto the freeway! And a heck of a lot of fun too!
MT mike the snake (Guest)
Thanks, of course, I'm a very conservative driver. my fast street driving days are over. I live 20 minutes from Sears Point, and when I feel the need to go fast I do an autocross or track day at Sears Point.

The Pantera I plan on keeping to drive, look good in, maybe punch it occasionally getting onto the freeway, but I pretty much drive like grandma most of the time.

I was just wondering when I'm normally driving, would it be better to just drive and shift the same as any other car, or since it's a race engine whether I should rev it higher between shifts/stay in a lower gear/keep the rpm's higher while cruising around.



quote:
Originally posted by Robbie:
I don't want to sound like a curmugeon but please be careful where you do your "drive it like you stole it" .. we all get a bad rap when one owner drives in an excessive manner in the wrong place.
Next

Add Reply

Views: 906
Post

Membership Required

We're sorry. You must be signed in to continue. Sign In or Register
×
Are you sure you want to remove from your Block List?
×
Loading...
×
When you block a person, they can no longer invite you to a private message or post to your profile wall. Replies and comments they make will be collapsed/hidden by default. Finally, you'll never receive email notifications about content they create or likes they designate for your content.
Note: if you proceed, you will no longer be following .
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×