IDEA FOR WINDSOR BASED MOTOR

Interesting you bring up the 32 valve heads. There was a commentary regarding them on 8/12/2003.

As told by others the accessories will have different bolt patterns so some mods will be required or new brackets made/purchased.

Perhaps save yourself some money, headaches and check out www.coasthigh.com. They have a 408 kit that covers most of the goodies you listed. Just back off the 12:1 compression to a more reasonable number. They have an EFI package to top it off. This is the package I am looking to purchase.

Thanks so far for the comments. I am seeking input from the board members about: A)Piston selection
B)Cam selection
C)Oil pump and pan
D)Fuel delivery
E)Ignition

I think that I mentioned the compression ratio target is 10.0-10.5 to 1.0. With a four valve head this compression ratio should not pose any problems on 92 octane. If somebody thinks this is a problem please feel free to comment.

Also please feel free to comment on any issues you foresee with fitting the motor into the P-Car.

So your in suffern I am too email me ronmarl@optonline.net

quote:

---

Originally posted by DJEZC:
I had the following idea for a Windsor based motor that I would put in a Pantera.

Block - Dart, 4 bolt main aluminum. Set up as a 408 stroker. Would there be issues with regard to the normal pulleys and acessories? I would want a Gilmer belt drive system.

A cast steel crank, h beam connecting rods,

Heads - Arao engineering 32 valve aluminum heads. Compression ratio 10.0-10.5 to 1.0.

Cam - I would like input from the members on the board.

Ignition - Electronic, please provide suggestions.

Fuel delivery - A cross ram fuel injection set-up similar to that on Asa Jays Pantera page on the internet. Is there one out there for a Windsor based motor?

I am shooting for a very streetable normally aspirated 550+ horsepower, with a very broad torque band.

Please let me know what your thoughts are, what I need to think about that I am not, etc.

Thanks everyone!

---

> Block - Dart, 4 bolt main aluminum. Set up as a 408 stroker.

The aluminum block will allow a larger bore for more cubes if desired.
You can also go safely to a 4.1" stroke but that depends upon your ultimate
RPM goals.

> Would there be issues with regard to the normal pulleys and acessories?

Assuming you currently have a 351C, the 351W block brackets are different.
You'll also need a differnent thermostat set-up (either in the intake or
external).

> I would want a Gilmer belt drive system.

I have no experience with them but you might want to talk to Fred Terry.
He has a lot of experience with belt drives and worked with Gates on
his dual supercharger 351C set-up.

> a cast steel crank, h beam connecting rods,

Given your other components, I'd go with a forged steel crank. The SCAT
4340 forgings are maybe $200 more than the cast steel cranks and are machined
in the U.S. (the cast cranks are machined in China).

> Heads - Arao engineering 32 valve aluminum heads. Compression ratio
> 10.0-10.5 to 1.0.

You'll be charting new territory there. Your goals are quite achievable
with 2 valve heads (C302B, Brodix, CHI for canted valves).

> Cam - I would like input from the members on the board.

I'd need to see the actual flow numbers (not what ARAO claims, I'd put
the heads on a flow bench) and port dimensions/volumes before suggesting
cam specs.

> Ignition - Electronic, please provide suggestions.

Lock the advance out and let the fuel injection computer provide that
function.

> Fuel delivery - A cross ram fuel injection set-up similar to that on
> Asa Jays Pantera page on the internet. Is there one out there for a
> Windsor based motor?

Only if the same company makes one for a Windsor. The price tag for
the manifold assembly alone (no computer, wiring harness, fuel pump,
etc.) was $5500 a year or so ago. You can get a complete downdraft system
for that sort of money. Be aware the sidedraft assembly may not clear the
valve covers on the Arao heads. Even if it does, you won't be able to
remove the valve covers without removing the injection system. A short
stack downdraft system will fit under the stock decklid and not really
cost you much torque.

If you decide on the Arao heads, they'll do whatever port you want so
you don't necessarily have to have a "Windsor" version. I'd opt for
a high port C302B style myself, as intakes and headers are available.

> I am shooting for a very streetable normally aspirated 550+ horsepower,
> with a very broad torque band.

That's the same goal I set for myself. A friend's 418W with 4.1" stroke
crank, AFR 205 heads, hydraulic roller cam, Victor Jr, Demon carb dyno'd
at 556 HP under 6000 RPM. In a lightweight Cobra replica, it was daily
driveable, would start in 3rd gear, etc. I'll have similar cubes and
cam but my C302B heads outflow the AFR's by 40 CFM (290 versus 332 CFM)
and a tall stack indepent runner EFI set-up.

Dan Jones

quote:

---

Originally posted by DJEZC:
I had the following idea for a Windsor based motor that I would put in a Pantera.

Block - Dart, 4 bolt main aluminum.

Why a dart block. You can use a main support and be fine to about 450 inches.

Set up as a 408 stroker. Would there be issues with regard to the normal pulleys and acessories? I would want a Gilmer belt drive system.



A cast steel crank,

I would go forged.

h beam connecting rods,



Heads - Arao engineering 32 valve aluminum heads.

Why Arao heads. TFS or AFR head will do the trick.
Compression ratio 10.0-10.5 to 1.0.

Cam - I would like input from the members on the board.

Ignition - Electronic, please provide suggestions.

Fuel delivery -
A cross ram fuel injection set-up similar to that on Asa Jays Pantera page on the internet. Is there one out there for a Windsor based motor?



BBK is making a cross ram EFI intake. You can check it out on the web. I am not sure it will fit under the decklid???

I am shooting for a very streetable normally aspirated 550+ horsepower, with a very broad torque band.

Please let me know what your thoughts are, what I need to think about that I am not, etc.

Thanks everyone!

---

550 not that hard with the right parts. You will need some big injectors.

Keith Craft builds a great motor. Coast high builds mostly drag car motors.

I think you need to describe your goals before anyone can make meaningful recommendations.

When you say "Windsor" do you just mean a 9.5 deck block? Functionally, the deck height is basic difference in the Cleveland vs. 351 Windsor blocks. There are other differences (oil pan, timing chain, dist, etc, but the deck height is what changes the engine's function (e.g., lets you use a longer stroke.)

What HP and RPM in what use do you want? It all makes a big difference. Do you want looks or performance or both? DO you want a smooth engine or one that sounds and feels like a race car? Will you street drive, get onto a track, or open road race?

Ken