Installing an FE 427 SO Motor in a Pantera

During one of the very first of several such installations in the late '70s, an owner asked his shop-owner friend this question. The answer was, 'Simple- there's really only three little things that need to be done!"

To quote the owner, "2 years later, the third 'little thing' was finished, and he wasn't my friend any more...." Today, things have been sorted out better but this is far from a simple engine swap.

The FE block is both longer and wider than a 351-C, and uses different motor mounts and a different bell housing. The headers and AC/alternator bracket will be custom, and some mods are needed to get the shift rod to work with the wider block. Forget about using the engine screen up on top. If I were you, I'd contact the Byars brothers in CA who have installed the modern equivalent 429/460 big-block Fords (up to 545 cubic inches) in quite a few Panteras. The details are crucial.

Once the motor is mounted & running, you will find that -A- you really need a rear suspension stiffening system to handle the extra torque & to keep from cracking body panels from flex, and -B- you now own what amounts to a 3-speed ZF, since even 12" wide rear tires will go up in smoke constantly in 1st & 2nd. Owners simply start in 3rd.... It would be prudent to budget around $3000 extra to cover regearing the ZF for big engine torque and adding a big clutch.

There may be cooling issues depending on what rad & electric fans you now have. Then, you'll have a slightly heavier street Pantera that can exceed 200 mph...so adding a front air dam & rear spoiler is also prudent. Learning throttle restraint is the BB Pantera owner's last problem.

I thought as much.

Sounds like I have an Aluminum 427 S.O. for sale.

I see that there is an adapter bell housing available from Quicktime

Anyway If anyone has direct experience or knows of someone competent to do this, I remain interested in the possibility.

Thanks

Dennis Quella at Pantera Performance in Colorado did several of them. You could inquire there.

Thanks. Co. is not far.

A friend of mine in Maui owned a 427 Pantera for a time. Here's some pictures he took in 2008 prior to his purchase. Not sure where the car is now after it was sold.

Nice Pics.

It looks like an early 71 or 72 by the looks of the dash. Does anyone know what they had to do to strengthen the chassis to make it a targa??

That engine looks great!!!

Victor

Interesting Weber setup.
Typically Webers are isolated runners.

NOS also. Overkill is a wonderful thing.

quote:

Originally posted by agustaboy:
Interesting Weber setup.
Typically Webers are isolated runners.

NOS also. Overkill is a wonderful thing.

That is an interesting set up and yes IDA's are intended for IR manifolds but have been made to run on open plenums.

With that all in mind I'd consider the Porsche 46ida3, three barrels for that manfiold.

Certainly the hunger of a 427 could find a way to digest them in a terrifying if not efficient manor?

quote:

Originally posted by agustaboy:

Interesting Weber setup.
Typically Webers are isolated runners.

You know me, I'm always good for a little bit of history, in a long-winded way.

The manifold is an old Edelbrock cross-ram manifold originally cast for dual four barrel carburetors. Its a throwback to the "wide open induction system" era. The top of each plenum has been modified for a single Weber carburetor, which is about 630 cfm each (assuming they are set-up with 48 mm throats).

That type of manifold was basically the ultimate in carbureted intake manifold design, featuring 8 long, straight, equal-length runners; each with a straight shot into the intake port. The draw back of such manifolds was always fuel distribution ... which was why the Autolite in-line carburetors were designed. The in-line carbs would have provided better fuel distribution because each "barrel" of the carburetor would have been perched approximately at the inlet to a manifold runner, the same concept as a tunnel ram, except the runners are horizontal instead of vertical. A pair of two-barrel carburetors (Weber, Autolite, etc) on each plenum would have accomplished the same thing. Back in the 1950s it was common to use cross-ram manifolds with 3 single barrel Stromberg carbs per side, which inspired the 1960s fad of three deuce manifolds.

Resolving the fuel distribution problems with such manifolds was the next step towards perfecting them. The use of in-line carburetors was outlawed however by various race sanctioning bodies such as NASCAR, SCCA etc that mandated single conventional design four barrel carburetors instead. Those mandates eventually lead to the demise of the "wide open induction system" style of intake manifolds.

The Weber IDA carburetors are technically just a two barrel carburetor, and are tunable enough to work in many applications. The biggest difference in jetting between an IR carburetor & a carburetor set-up for a plenum manifold is the off-idle "tip-in" jetting where IR carbs tend to be leaner than carbs set-up for a plenum manifold.

The owner of the Pantera in the pictures has not positioned the Weber carburetors ideally on the manifold, ideally meaning two carbs per side where each barrel is in-line with the inlet to a manifold runner. He has only used one carb per side, possibly to avoid having to cut a notch in the rear deck lid.

-G

Below is a picture of a factory Mopar induction system from the early 1960s

Vicramos, THAT is the Pantera I was referring to in my post- one of the first ones to get an FE engine. It was also one of the first non-factory Targas, built in So-Cal. It belonged to Don Welch of CA, a founder of POCA. I saw it in Las Vegas in 1982.
As for stiffening, that was an ongoing project for some time; to start with, Don said there was so much body twist, he could punch the throttles and both doors would open... Don't know the details as to how it was stiffened (one source said it had reworked rocker panels & windshield posts. I suspect there was far more to it).

I also have pictures on this car in Vegas in the '82 POCA rally. It had dual quads then with twin velocity stacks on a different intake.

I recall there was another car on the rally running an FE block with a custom 180 degree exhaust. I'm going to have to pull the album out of storage.

That is the intake manifold that was used on the two dual Paxton Cobras built by Shelby. One that was owned by Cosby and destroyed going over a cliff, the other owned by Harvey Cluxton went for $5.5 million at auction 2 years ago.

That car was originally owned by Jim Webb the music writer.

I'd rather have the "normal" 2x4 MR intake. This one is only for show.-

Bayani, I think the other FE-Pantera that year belonged to Wynn Coomer from Colorado- license "EXOCET" (a cruise missle). Really awesome sound from the pipes. That year, some of the Colorado Panteras outran a highway patrol airplane on the way to the 'Vegas Fun Rally! On the way home, they took a slower, non-direct route- reportedly, those cops were really perturbed!

quote:

Originally posted by Bosswrench:
Bayani, I think the other FE-Pantera that year belonged to Wynn Coomer from Colorado- license "EXOCET" (a cruise missle). Really awesome sound from the pipes. That year, some of the Colorado Panteras outran a highway patrol airplane on the way to the 'Vegas Fun Rally! On the way home, they took a slower, non-direct route- reportedly, those cops were really perturbed!

Good memory Jack. That was an awesome machine.

The cross ram is a very cool intake ... i had one for a 427 a while back. What was interesting about the one i had the brass plugs where where you had to insert bolts into the heads. This one happened to be polished back in the day so any casting marks had been ground off ... a real museum piece.

Ron

They bring quite a bit these days used. I guess that could be interpreted as very desirable? There is one for a 289 also.

I can't imagine how they were cast. Some parts must have been pre-cast and put into the mold?

At today's cost, what would Edelbrock charge now?

quote:

Originally posted by LIV1S:

quote:

Originally posted by Bosswrench:
Bayani, I think the other FE-Pantera that year belonged to Wynn Coomer from Colorado- license "EXOCET" (a cruise missle). Really awesome sound from the pipes. That year, some of the Colorado Panteras outran a highway patrol airplane on the way to the 'Vegas Fun Rally! On the way home, they took a slower, non-direct route- reportedly, those cops were really perturbed!

Good memory Jack. That was an awesome machine.

Came across the picture of the Yellow 427 FE Pantera we saw in Vegas. Pictures of old pictures so not so clear but still a pretty awesome engine in a Pantera.

Only a tiny bit off-subject, but at one of those past 'Vegas shows, I was standing in back with the owner of PurGold with his decklid open, and I heard two of our local 'fancy ladies' talking- "Jennie- that car got ROCKET POWER back there! How that be legal??" She saw George's twin gold-plated nitrous tanks mounted over the ZF.... He about fell over laughing.