Is anyone using a Wilwood Clutch Master Cylinder?

I've been running a Wilwood clutch master for a while now--GS Compact Integral Master Cylinder, PN 260-15098. Still using the same long-throw slave I've had in the car since 2009 (Amazing that it's lasted this long). The Wilwood clutch master works just fine, but after a couple of failures (fewer than the many "OEM" masters I went through), I may go to a Tilton clutch master for basically the same reason this guy determined when comparing the two... https://youtu.be/Hz4AlAt7DJ8

Wow thanks! I’ve been getting an intermittent really stiff clutch pedal. I thought the master might be the culprit? Seems like it still engages the slave cylinder, but sometimes it’s super stiff. I did just put in a new clutch, but it started about 250 miles after🤷‍♂️

Was your new clutch a McLeod? Did you use an aftermarket throw out bearing hub?

Yes it’s a McLeod from Pantera Performance and they supplied the throw out bearing. I’m running a Coyote. Strange that the pedal has gotten so stiff intermittently… sometimes fine and sometimes it’s terrible…. On the way home today, it decided not to let me put it in gear, but then after depressing it about five or six times it did and then I drove home pretty normally, but with a really stiff clutch.

FWIW, I installed the PIM McLeod clutch, pressure plate and throw out bearing system in 2017. It was MUCH stiffer than the old, slipping, non-Pantera clutch I replaced, but the stiffness of the new clutch  was never intermittent. So, I installed an Effort Reduction Kit a few months later, and the difference was noticeable. It was either that, or I was going to have to go to the gym to build up the strength of my left leg.

Doc -

Look at the recent threads RE: Galling of the ZF Snout….

Sounds like something like that to me…

Rocky

Yes, That's why I asked. The steel bearing carrier has a tendency to Gall on the transmission snout. Three cases I know of so far, now maybe four. Did you put any lube on the snout?

I think so, but don't remember specifically doing that. Sounds like I may need to remove trans again and eval.... thankfully that's a pretty easy job. Would that make the pedal super springy? It is definitely consistent now after bleeding... it honestly feels like its on a super strong spring

Also thought I would add why I had to change my clutch after 1500 miles. One of the cast fingers on the diaphragm broke off. I’m not sure how long it was broken off and rattling around in there, but I really did love the clutch. It worked perfectly with the stock slave cylinder. Here are some pictures for your enjoyment. The frustrating part was that they didn’t warranty it, so that’s why I decided to use a different clutch to see how that worked🥴.  One day I pushed in the clutch, and it didn’t disengage… Could not figure out why… If you look really closely, you can see that the finger spring lodged itself perfectly in the bottom

I'm running the Mcleod clutch and throw out bearing carrier as well as the Wilwood 0.75" master cylinder.  I've tried both stock and long throw slave cylinders but still have a hard to push clutch pedal.

I pulled the ZF last month to check everything out.  I found the fork inside the ZF that engages the throw out carrier was wearing unevenly.  This caused the carrier to slightly twist and was uneven along the travel on input shaft.  This caused some binding/resistance in the middle of the travel which created galling on input shaft.  Notice the fork finger on the left is worn down and was making less contact with the carrier bearing.   It took me a while of studying the travel with the ZF out of the car.

I cleaned everything best I could at it is improved but still stiff.  I think the solution is to replace the input shaft and fork assembly but I'm saving that for another time.

John

#3590

@rlee63a4 posted:

FWIW, I installed the PIM McLeod clutch, pressure plate and throw out bearing system in 2017. It was MUCH stiffer than the old, slipping, non-Pantera clutch I replaced, but the stiffness of the new clutch  was never intermittent. So, I installed an Effort Reduction Kit a few months later, and the difference was noticeable. It was either that, or I was going to have to go to the gym to build up the strength of my left leg.

I had a similar experience  when I installed a McLeod clutch, pressure plate, and throwout bearing on a 72 Pre L.  Substantial effort was needed to press the clutch pedal.  My solution was to add the clutch effort reduction kit, the one with needle bearings.  The clutch was easy to operate after that change.

Steve,

I'm planning on trying that next.  I assume the clutch mc rod length has to change when you add the reduction kit?   Any idea on the required length and does it come with the kit?  I guess a guy could use a piece of all-thread and cut to length.

Thanks,
John

FYI... from the ERK TSB...

My kit did not come with a pushrod for the master cylinder.  I can't recall exactly what I did to make it work but it was not a big deal to achieve the correct length.

It is a bit of a project to add the clutch effort reduction setup.  You have to pull the pedal box and press in a longer shaft that is shared by the gas pedal and the new clutch pivot.

Be sure to check if you already have it.  If it's already there then it is likely worn out.  It is much less of a project to fix the worn pivot because you are just replacing parts.  You might be able to do it without pulling the pedal box.

The OEM ERK must have come with a new pushrod per the TSB, but my ERK with needle bearings did not. I believe all I did was shortened the longer rod and cut new threads as required. Yeah. Pulling the pedal box was not fun, but it gave me the opportunity to clean and lubricate the moving parts.

Enjoy,

Yep Gauling. I greased it, but maybe not well enough🤷‍♂️. I’m having a grease retention grove cut into the bearing carrier when I get bearing receiver lathed or replaced. 👍🏼

Well, at least you found root cause.

Now the job is to find, and implement the best, and longest lasting solution!

Rocky

If you use the stock cast iron bearing carrier it has graphite in it and will help alleviate the problem. Yours is the fourth one that has had this issue and they all used the McLeod steel bearing carrier. One suggestion I have if using the steel carrier is to have it's inner surface coated with an anti friction coating.