Looking for Mangusta wheels....

Check with Dave Adler, he had a stock reconditioned set for sale a while back

He's Whiplash on this board

Thanks Dennis for the tip, I will look into it.

Mike S.

Hey Mike,

Not to hijack the thread, but what did your do swap that $24K Pantera you were selling for a Goose?

Julian..."what did your do swap" Huh?? lol!

Not in that exact order, since you asked. I did sell the Pantera, thanks, and I did acquire the Goose, but no, not swapped in the same deal.

you are welcome to see the goose anytime being in Reno! now back to finding Mangusta wheels....

Mike,

There are a few of us who are interested in some larger original style wheels. I'm thinking 17's in the original style, much the way the Pantera Campy clones have been done.

When things quieten down a bit (which I am expecting over the next few months), I plan to look further into this. I want a set of wheels that look great and can wear modern rubber. I still have my original alloy wheels and don't plan on selling them, just want some "extra shoes". Let me know if you might also be interested. Keep an eye on eBay as the 15's do come up every now & then.

Mark

Mark, absolutely I am open to the idea of a larger/same look custom wheel. My car is hardly original!, so I just want a more original look where the wheels are concerned. I do like the idea of the original 15's w/re-manufactured Michelin xwx's for a nice period correct look and ride? your opinion?

a 16" front with a 17" rear or 17" and 18" or 16" and 18"....definitely worth a debate!

keep me updated and meanwhile the search goes on...

fyi, I did make contact with a custom wheel builder and a one-off set is quite expensive, enough to deter me, but perhaps with a group purchase?? Didn't someone do this a few years ago? I have been chasing some old e-mail contacts that were referred to me..it is like detective work, kind of fun!

To everyone associated with these cool Detomaso auto's, thanks for always just jumping in to help when requested, and for giving opinions and suggestions that are never rude or condescending...I appreciate it! kind of a newbie here

PM "EvodIndustries" on this forum. He builds custom wheels:
http://pantera.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/4250045562...290040775#8290040775

I'm sure he could give you guys a price for a set of custom Mangusta Campy Clones in a modern size.

He did, and I sure they are awesome, just a little $$ pricey for a one-off set...we need a large group and maybe the price comes down? Not even sure of that, just a guess, in the meantime, please keep the tips and ideas coming, something will pan out. Market is soft on all things 'collectible autos' perhaps someone wants to cash in now on a set taking up space????

Mike, What sort of cost rage were you getting? Did you inquire about having 5 or 10 sets made? I bet 5 would fly and 10 would be a reasonable demand. I have the original wheels and even a spare set of original XWX tires, but I just can't love the skinny tire look — especially with the silly inboard off-set. Might have looked great in 1966, but I like a wider wheel (at least a 10") and more outward off-set.

Thanks Mark, your experienced opinion is appreciated...I only inquired about one set and the price is really high...I would never spend $7K or higher for a set of wheels...I already have a kick ass set of 'custom' wheels on the car...only they don't look like the original Campy style.

It would be nice to have a custom set with offset and wheelwell clearance and ride height, etc..all perfected. And look like factory original Campy style...With you and me, we are up to two!

interesting to see what comes of this...

I just ordered a set of aftermarket wheels and tires for the Mangusta. I plan to keep the originals but upgrade to newer rubber. I ordered a set of Formula wheels from PI motorsport with a stock 4 bolt pattern. The bolt pattern is an unusual 106 mm. Front will be 8x18 and rear is 10x18. Front tire is 225/40/18 and rear is 285/40/18. Front backspacing is 3.5 inch, rear backspacing is 4 inch

FWIW, the DeTomaso factory in Italy still owns the molds used by Campagnolo to make all the wheels they ever sold. A dozen years back, one owner contacted the factory and had several sets of Vallelunga wheels remade- at enormous cost (originally made in the early '60s). But that was the ONLY way to get a set for that DeTomaso. If you're adamant about getting a set of OEM Mangusta wheels, call Steve Wilkinson who is the factory contact nowadays for ALL DeTomaso parts impoted to the U.S. It will NOT be cheaper than E-Bay, but they will be brand new.
Second point: cast magnesium age-hardens, so old wheels get harder and more brittle, even if never used and sitting quietly on a shelf. Home heat-treating can remove these stresses but it does destroy original paint.

Jack, EXCELLENT suggestion! I have spoken with Steve and requested that he pursue that - a 'NEW' cast set..have not heard back, this was a month or so ago.....Mike

Has anybody formed an opinion what an original front and an original rear Mangusta wheel would be worth? Has anybody learned of a sale in recent months?

A few years back, PI Motorsports prepared a set of 4-lug oversize wheels for the Fox Mangusta. I think they looked terrific with the satin grey center sections. I think they were in the area of $600 each +/-. Do you like this style for your Mangusta? I feel that the lower aspect tires in some ways spoil the look of the car and without lowering the car, leave too much open space above the tire. It is never a good idea to lower a 'Goose.

Dave, I have to agree that the grey Goose could really use more rubber at the rear, but the front wheel/opening ratio looks as perfect as I have ever seen on a Mangusta. That style of wheel looks very nice as well, especially with the body-match paint centers.

The real problem I guess is finding a tire that looks meaty enough. Personally, I would prefer my speedo be off a bit and have the car look "right". These cars seem set right with stock wheels but check out the tire size on the brochure car!

Mark

A wheel is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. I really wanted a replacement stock wheel to complete the Mangusta. I bid on ebay and I am not sure if there was truly another bidder on ebay or someone just pumping up the price. I finally paid $3,600 for a wheel that needed refinishing. It started off at $50 but just escalated from there. That must be a record for an original Mangusta wheel.

I appreciate your answer. I don't think you paid too much or too little. They are rare pieces of art. A customer of mine wanted some custom wire wheels made for a Rolls and the estimated cost was $3,500.00 per wheel. The rare Mangusta wheel should be as much or more. I wonder what a steering wheel would go for these days? By the way, was your wheel a front or rear? Thank you, Dave

if you know the Countach variants....the early 'Bravo' wheels, (raised 5 circle pattern and rougher hewn), they are fetching something in the neighborhood of $20K - $30K a set! Mangusta wheels are one of the most beautiful cast of all time imho

Hey guys thought I would chime in here.

Here are a couple options for you.

#1. Stock appearing wheels in whatever size you guys want made from 6061T6 billet aluminum CNC machined with your choice of finish(polised, blasted and painted to look original?) would run around $6k set with purchase of 6 sets.

#2. Make a mold and cast a center to look original but be able to use different hoops for width of customers choice. Molds cost about $5k but can make thousands of wheels. Cost for a set of these cast wheels would be about $2k but requires the up front mold cost and a purchase of about 25 sets.

Just some food for thought.

Mark, your comments about the brochure car are spot on. I remember my first Mangusta 'sightings'.....one of the KEY things that stood out and caught my attention was that GIANT tractor tire on the rear with clearance of about .000000000000001 inch

Yeah, it's a cool look as long as you're not actually moving!

I just changed all my Pantera suspension components and with the new coil-overs pre-set them to what I figured was the correct height. When I lowered the car there was about 1/4 inch clearance above the wheel. I LOVED how it looked, but now what would happen after I hit a pebble on the road... At least with the Goose the wheels are inset enough that there likely wouldn't be any rubbing. Not that I know because I've only ever pushed my Mangusta, and never over a bump!

I think that a set of original looking wheels in the $2500 max/set range would likely entice me, and I suspect many others, to buy a set. I think that Steve W is aiming for exactly this approach and suspect we will have a "stock-mod" solution pretty soon in 17" and possibly 18" x various widths. If not, those PI wheels look pretty damn good to me. I might even have to go with the same paint scheme as well. Hmmm.

Mark

That was a rear wheel. I think the original lip was bent and could be straightened but I feel more at ease driving on wheels that were never bent.

Soap-box time! Relative to cast magnesium wheels, the stuff has the peculiar property of 'age-hardening', getting harder and more brittle while sitting quietly on a shelf, or mounted on a seldom-used car. Aircraft engineers refer to magnesium as 'compressed corrosion' from its chemical reactivity and porosity. Internal stresses build up in the castings until cracks appear. The stresses can be annealed in Mom's oven at 350 F degrees for 3 hours followed by VERY slow cooling. If possible, take the hot wheel out, wrap it in blankets & return the wheel to the still hot but 'off' oven until the next day. Annealing heat will turn the stock protective paint tan. Interestingly, professional powder-coating anneals mag during the curing process, as does properly done TIG-weld repairs. Annealing of all magnesium Campys should probably be done for safety every 10 years or so.
Second, three piece aluminum 'racing' wheels do not belong on street cars. I've seen far too many break on the road, in all sorts of interesting and expensive ways. The thin inners & outers fracture, the connecting bolts to the cast centers pull out or unloosen, centers break in two and catastrophic decompression occurs. One owner had bolts come loose coming down Mt Charleston in Las Vegas. When the dust settled, his Pantera was 100 feet off the road and had no front suspension. The last one I'd heard failing was last Fall, parked after a 'spirited' drive; suddenly there was a loud noise and one 3-piece 17x 11 rear wheel was 4-piece! Unless you can do a thorough inspection of the parts like racing teams do (sometimes with X-ray), stay away from all 3-piece wheels. Race teams usually throw away wheel halves after a year of use, or after any off-road excursion. Please do not use these- I have no spare friends!

Jack,

I understood that some of the late Mangusta wheels were aluminum not magnesium. Other than the noticeable weight difference, is there and easy way to tell the difference on a painted wheel? Or, was I misinformed and they are ALL magnesium?

Mark

Not sure if they were early or late, but they do exist. I've held an aluminum Mangusta wheel and one way to tell is, its about twice the weight of a magnesium one! Don't remember the backside casting marks- maybe Steve will chime in?

OK, the latest 7" rim that I picked up weighs in at 18lb 3oz. bare. Everything else that I have has tires on them....

I "believe" it to be aluminum....but it could be magnesium that was recently "shined up a bit" for sale purposes.... It does have some darker stained sections but not having enough experience with aluminum or magnesium...cannot say for certain one way or da udda!


It has no markings on the rim, front or backside.

My one odd 7" rim on my car, (replaced in 1972ish) has CAMPAGNOLO cast right into one of the spokes in raised letters. Wheel has very crisp lines, and had the DeT spare wheel part number written on the inside in grease pencil, found when I pulled the old tire off to have the rims powder coated! Other four rims had nothing....but sand casting holes...!
Steve

I just acquired my second goose wheel...a 7" front, it is on my way to me right now. I now have one rear and one front....can anyone part with one rear and one front to complete my set? Awaiting eagerly with cash

one at a time is better than nothing so far

Mike S.

Regarding the grey goose. I made the same mistake of using 295/40/18 for the rear. I changed it to 295/45/18 and it does not have the space opening in the wheel well.

If you haven't seen it - apparently this guy Cesare Magistrali owns all the original detomaso wheel molds and are planning on casting wheels in magnesium:

mangusta wheel molds

Kristian

That's true. Cesare owns the molds, and I am trying to get a significant group order for Pantera GR4. If there are sufficient orders for Mangusta, why not grouping an extra order ? Cesare is a real professional, with a huge experience, and we are planning a meeting soon in Italy.
Patrick
Candy factory GR4 2862, ADA Le Mans 9628

in the meantime, if anyone needs an 'original' magnesium REAR wheel, selling on ebay right now
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...X%3AIT#ht_500wt_1129
Having now owned both the magnesium and aluminum variety, the differences are; the weight obviously and the aluminum wheels are a LOT smoother cast, the magnesium wheels are rough, but cool!

quote:

Originally posted by Mang:
in the meantime, if anyone needs an 'original' magnesium REAR wheel, selling on ebay right now
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...X%3AIT#ht_500wt_1129
Having now owned both the magnesium and aluminum variety, the differences are; the weight obviously and the aluminum wheels are a LOT smoother cast, the magnesium wheels are rough, but cool!

I have also communicated with Cesare, nice guy, and expressed interest in acquiring the 10" version of the Mangusta wheel, if anyone else is interested, perhaps mention it on this thread and see if there is a bigger interest!

I am confident there is interest in a group buy of the 10" Mangusta wheels. In fact, there may already be something in the works with Cesare (after he's done with Patricks GR4 order). They (the 10" wheels) are stunning and fit the wheel well unbelievably well (don't ask me how I know this). I definitely want a set in Aluminum. Magnesium would be nice, but not worth the cost to me as I will never derive the performance benefits of the lightness and prefer the better finish possible with aluminum. Where do I sign up?

Mark

IIRC, there is a note in the Goose parts books for a hub carrier that was specific to the larger offset rims that you speak of......

I suspect that it was on the infamous "wall chassis" and perhaps a few of the first cars....but who knows....

Just something to throw out there...... It would be a shame to order new rear wheels only to find out that the more common hub carrier doesn't allow it to fit.....

Sure would be nice to have an original 10" wheel to try on a late car!!!!

Steve

FWIW, I've read of the stock rear wheels being 7-1/2" x 15, and 8" x 15. Which is correct- or are they both found on some 'Gooses?
Either way, 10" wide rears would be a huge size increase, needing 275, 285 or 295-50 tires. I'd suggest putting the stock 7-1/2 or 8" rear wheels up front to better balance your Goose with such big rear wheels, just like we do with the Pantera and it's optional 10 x 15 Campys.

quote:

Originally posted by Bosswrench:
I'd suggest putting the stock 7-1/2 or 8" rear wheels up front to better balance your Goose with such big rear wheels, just like we do with the Pantera and it's optional 10 x 15 Campys.

Damn, my evil plan exposed...

quote:

Originally posted by Mangusta:
IIRC, there is a note in the Goose parts books for a hub carrier that was specific to the larger offset rims that you speak of......

Sure would be nice to have an original 10" wheel to try on a late car!!!!

Steve

Wow, GREAT catch Steve. We should follow up with Cesare and ask him, since he has all the moulds and should be able to determine if the hub aspect is different.

Thanks for that!

Mark

those 10" rims look SICK!!! I have always lusted after them, seeing them on factory photos of chassis and on this gorgeous 'racecar'

Glad to get in line behind Mark on this one... a pair in aluminum would be excellent! Hope things work out, any others interested? Thanks for highlighting the possibility - Nate S