Mangusta ball joints

Well I did some research and found the ball joints are from a Fiat 124 and its the lower ball joint part number 5882118. The tie rod ends are from a Fiat X1/9 part number 4117875. You can get them from C.Obert & Co. or Auto Ricambi, LLC. Ben

I can not comment on all mangustas but I am sure mine were from a 500, but I can not be sure. I purchased mine from fun imports (danny), and I recall it was about 30 bucks for both.

Fiat 500 never had ball joints. They used a king pin.
Mangusta uses ball joints and tie rods from Fiat 124.
Steering rack is early Renault 4.

I will take your word, I thought it was a 500 but if you are correct, than it must have been from a 124. I have a parts book here somewhere, but I can not put my hand on it.

I'm pretty sure its from a Fiat 124 lower ball joint assembly.

Did Detomaso ever put out a regular parts book for the Mangusta? The only one I have is for the body or Carroezzia. What about the chassis or engine like the Ferrari or Lambo parts books.

Ben,

You are correct about the ball joints and the tie rod outer ends!

Parts book: YES! There is a chassis section that is worth a helluva lot more than the body section..... I'm surprised that you ended up with only that piece! Usually it is the other way around..... The chassis section has been in reprint for years, although not entirely translated.....I've done some of the Italian and Ford part number translations where I could read them....and where they appeared in my Ford Master Parts Catalog!

I think the body part only surfaced in the past 10 years or so (may not be true!) but in my experience, I'd not run into any normal owners having it.... Doesn't do you any good anyway as it is written differently than the chassis book, which has parts "sources" listed....as to who was the supplier and perhaps manufacturer, which does come in handy! Even sometimes model numbers of specific donor cars are listed.

Check with Larry Stock, he should have the chassis parts book in stock. (Pantera Parts Connection in Reno)

Ciao!
Steve

Well I got around to the ball joints. I got a set from C. Orbert and Co. The external dimensions were correct and look similar but the end that fits in the little well at the end of the suspension arms are too big. The ones from C. Obert is 3 mm too wide. I wonder if there is variation from one Fiat 124 to another. Or can I take the part to a machinist and have the base of the ball joint machined down 3 mm to slide into the ball joint well without losing structural integrity?

Ben, part of the problem might be, there are three (3) different iterations of the Mangusta's lower front a-arms! I think Steve ran into this some years ago when he was getting it street ready and found that he had iteration 2 on the left side and iteration 3 on the right. The changes were welding and bracing of the actual ball joint socket in the a-arms, I believe. If my memory is correct, that might be the source of your poor fit. Did you try both sides?

Ben,

There is an upper and a lower 124 ball joint. Unfortunately, I do not know which is the one we need! I haven't had time to look the number up in the chassis parts book yet.....

I purchased my ball joints from DeTomaso when I was there back in 96. I have two different lower a-arms (type 1 & 2) on my car as Jack mentioned, and #3 types sitting on my shelf. There was no problem fitting the new BJ's to either of the arms in my car. I confess that I did not check the fit to the newer versions on the shelf but presume that they would fit..... I do remember that the BJ housings were cast iron looking vs stamped and crimped steel...(which BLEW apart into multiple pieces!)

I also regret not taking any pictures of the new units before I put them in....digital photography was just starting to blossom back then.......and the pictures were tiny...out of the little cameras that were affordable...

If we can definitively determine which ball joint you need, I'm sure Chris will exchange yours.

Some day I need to dig out an a-arm and haul it up to my local Fiat guru and see whusup!

Steve

After some research Fiat had a lot of ball joint failures with the first design and have increased the size of the housing to strengthen the part. The Mangusta uses the same ball joints as the early Fiat 124 sedan which has the pushrod engine. This might explain why the ones I got were 3 mm wider at the base.

Ben,

You'll need to talk to Chris about this. I couldn't say. Mine are now a cast iron looking body, very stout!

I can possibly take some pictures if need be. Let me know.... they are installed...!

The originals looked like stamped steel pieces welded together at the edges...the welds held up but everything around them cracked all to hell! TORE up a brand new set of tires coming back from Vegas one year after they all let loose on the drive there....

Steve

The old ball joints are 40 mm in diameter and the new ones are 43 mm. The control arms ball joint holders are stamped steel. I hate to modify the control arms to fit the ball joints. I just need to find a set of ball joints that will fit. I'll keep looking. Ben

I took a picture of all of the Fiat 124 lower ball joints. They all have the same part numbers but only the one in the middle has the correct 40 mm base which fits in my Mangusta. The other have 43 mm bases.

Here is a view of all of the Fiat 124 lower ball joints from the side. The only one fits is the middle.

I cut one of the ball joints that do not fit to see how thick the walls are. I was thinking of grinding down the walls to fit. It probably would have made the joint unsafe.

Ben,

I believe that I have the center type in your picture, as well.

I would think the trick is to make sure that you are getting this particular ball joint, and specify the 40mm diameter of the cup area.....rather than trying to hog out 3mm of metal from the a-arm, or the ball joint itself....

Great info!
Steve

Hello out there,
I am in the need for lower ball joints for my Goose. I read all the posts, sounds like the joints to go after are the 40mm ones. With the Fiat parts number listed, do I just go the trial and error method being there are early and late versions of this joint.Any help would be appreicated.

IS
I have a set of FIAT joints, they have the right dimensions but without grease fittings. I discussed it with a friend who has a beautiful X-19 and he says they are the newer joints, good replacements, with a composite insert that wears slower than greased metal.

I will install them when I next get tires and a wheel alignment.

DICK RUZZIN

Dick,
Would you have the part numbers available for the upper and lower joints? I am ready to move forward.

Sorry, I do not have any part numbers. The dimensions you gave are the right ones. I think they came from one of the bigger FIAT parts supplier about five years ago, who knew the Mangusta dimensions.

DICK RUZZIN

Dick,
I will try jumping through the loops.
Thanks
for your reply.

ITALIAN STALLION,
I found the box with my ball-joints. BOUGHT THREE YEARS AGO.

PART # 014.03989-1 (TOP AND BOTTOM ARE THE SAME)

FROM: OBERT & CO.
2131-D DELAWARE AVE.
SANTA CRUZ CA. 95060
PHONE: 831-423-0218

DICK RUZZIN

Dick,

Not trying to be a pain, but what brand does it say on the box?I called Obert and that number does not come up.

IS,

Perhaps you can copy Ben's pictures of the ball joints and specify the center 40mm version to Chris.

He's a good guy to work with. I just wish I had made more notes (and pictures) of when I put my new one in! But I do believe they are like the center one and are greasable!

Let us know how you fare, and ultimately, which 124 joint this is referred to as, ie upper or lower and what years?

Ciao!
Steve

Steve,
If I make any progress, I will keep everybody informed.

My notes say the ball joints number is 5882118

Could it be that the door glass adjustment is off causing the glass to be under stress when it is all the way up? Glass does get brittle as it ages.

The frame is adjustable, two adjustments in the door where the frame attaches and one at the back and top of the door.
The glass should be pivoting on it's metal and rubber attachment to the frame but if not adjusted properly, balanced between the two adjustments it could be under stress at one end or the other at the top. A single 10mm bolt connects the metal holder at the bottom of the glass to the lift mechanism. It should not be too tight as to allow the glass to move, tip side to side, as it goes up in the frame.
That is very scary.
If the glass radius did not quite match the frame radius on the driver door that could also be the cause, pinching the glass as it goes to the up position. I suppose you could check the glass tightness, when it is all the way to by trying to move it by hand to see if it is too tight.

DICK RUZZIN