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MANGUSTA HANDLING

I know that most of the people restoring cars now are being very careful about originality but I felt that this story should be told again to encourage others to make some careful moves to impact the much publicized Mangusta handling problem that after many years has now been clearly identified. 
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A while back I published a very detailed account about the cause of the instant change of the Mangusta rear suspension, the rear wheels going from positive to negative camber during high speed cornering.  Since the car was introduced this has been somewhat of a mystery, that is  the cause of this unusual and unique behavior.  There has been a lot of uneducated speculation about this phenomena, everything from not enough welds in the body, tunnel and subframe structure to exaggerated weight distribution.  

The cause of the problem was identified by Werner Meier, an ex General Motors chassis engineer who has a very successful Corvette restoration business.  He saw strange behavior of the rear subframe when the most rearward bridge on my car was removed and he immediately called me. He knew nothing of the Mangusta handling history but what he did know was that the Mangusta bridge set-up was backwards.  The attachments of the two bridges was also wrong, that is, each with one bolt on each end allowing them to act like hinges.  The combined bridge structure on each side of the car takes the cornering forces translated from the upper rod attached to the hub carrier.  

With one bolt on each side of the two bridges they have a hinge action that allows the upper part of the subframe behind the engine to move from right to left. In my cars case just shifting the ZF from first to reverse caused a movement of 1/2 inch as observed by Werner, when the car was standing still.

Werner designed  a new bridge that is solidly mounted with welded in tubes and shoulder bolts to the frame on both sides. The transaxle is softly mounted to the new bridge to absorb power transfer vibration.  This is the opposite of the original set-up. Looking at mid-engine rear structures in as many cars that I could find I discovered that all were solidly boxed in around the engine.  Except the Pantera, which has a similar bridge as the Mangusta.  I have been told that it also has some rear frame flex.

After installation of the new bridge the resultant impact of the change to ride and handling was amazing.  The car feels much more solid, very little weight bias is felt even with a full tank of gas, it tracks straight and true under acceleration and braking.

The Mangusta with its multiple ball joints both front and rear has a very sensitive racing chassis that comes from DeTomasos early race car building experience. This being the last expression which was the P70 race car chassis developed in a collaboration with Carrol Shelby.  This project was stopped when GM came out with its Big Block engine.

The question would normally be asked as to why this flaw was not found in early testing? Likely the time as well as cost pressures meant that it was overlooked.  Also,
it is very likely that the flaw would only show up after many miles when the rubber bushings on the bridge would deteriorate allowing space in the system that allows changes to camber when driving.

So why am I writing this?  If you have a Mangusta or are restoring one I think that you can improve or maintain good handling performance during everyday driving by making sure that the rear bridge bushings are in very good shape and tightly mounted.  I would also take the the front bridge that carries the shock absorber attachments and add an additional pair of arms to it, with four points instead of two solidly bolted to the frame to triangulate the front bridge structure,  this would diminish movement.  This action would be completely hidden if you are worrying about your car being seen as completely original which is the trend today.  This is a relatively simple fix that can result in real improvement of the chassis.  Both bridges were changed on my car.

The work done on my car shows that the backbone and rear subframe are quite well conceived and executed,  Structure or welds added elsewhere will do be of no added value in solving the problem if the bridges do not solidly complete the rear subframe, making it a solid box that the wheel forces input.

All the best,
DICK RUZZIN 

dickruzzindesign@aol.com
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Dick,

I'd bet money that those two photos are identical. A LOT of money. Big Grin

I was very impressed when I read your article about this project on M.I.

I plan to do something very similar on mine and really appreciate your work in identifying and resolving these issues. Johnny Woods also suggested converting the upper-outer bushing (at the upright) to a Heim joint and I plan to incorporate that as well. Thanks for sharing!

Mark
Mark,
Read it again. Heims joints will remove the space caused by rubber deterioration and deformation but the single attachments will still allow the hinge effect at each end of the bridge, therefore allowing the changing of the camber under side load. Single Heims joints will not stop the two sides of the frame from moving from right to left.

It might be better to leave the bridge as is, functioning as a vibration isolator for the power train and build another detachable bridge to the rear of it to act as a structural reinforcement for the two sides of the sub-frame. This should be done with welded in tubes and shoulder bolts.

We looked at a number of approaches and decided to fix everything including the weak thin tabs that carry the bridges, upper control arms and shocks.

This works very well.

DICK RUZZIN
No worries Dick. I realize I didn't properly separate those two thoughts nor describe the upper link correctly.

I have a GTD GT40 which was built with a simple bushed (vs Heim-jointed) suspension. A few years ago I converted the entire suspension to Heims – trying to more closely match the original GT40 design. The results were absolutely transformational. The GTD GT40 is now very predictable and pleasant to drive where before it was terrifying.

It's also interesting to note the strong similarity in suspension design between the GT40 and Mangusta.

Mark
Just looking at the differences between the early and later cars it seems some attempts were made to remedy the problems. The later cars have the various fillets welded the strengthen the chassis and most, but not all have the shock tower supports that are riveted to the body sides. Additionally the ladder assembly between the shock towers is wider and the bolt spacing is further apart and a different design. The gearbox support is the same. Also the front setup for the right hand drive cars has a "cam gears" rack, better positioned which appears to have remedied the bump steer issues.
Regarding the chassis, looking back at the early magazine articles it is apparent that the chassis which is extremely sensitive like a race car, on the cars tested. They were not set up correctly.

What is a shame is how ignorant the writers were to assume that if a car torque steers under acceleration it was intended to be that way. Same with the shift linkage, so easy to adjust once you figure it out, there were so many complaints about that and the assumption was that they were all that way as an engineering deficiency.

The Mangusta design has created such a powerful image of the car that it really is a distraction that hides the race car chassis. Too bad the chassis was flawed and communicated by a press that was ignorant about the new mid-engine architecture.

The simple flaws in the cars tested were turned into some kind of negative regarding DeTomaso that was widely communicated by the press. They clearly did not understand the enormous task of designing, building and manufacturing a car, if so they would have given him great credit for his achievements in spite of the flaws.

He did not have the processes or resources to correct problems as Ford did.

DICK RUZZIN
I have looked at a GT40, a car belonging to Jim Kinsler of fuel injection fame. I think he has a car that GM bought to put a big block in. The basic architectural concept is the same but the execution is very different. The camber problem in the Mangusta basic design cannot happen on the GT40. It does have a bridge but the structure is locked in from side to side to prevent deformation of the sub frame.

DICK RUZZIN

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