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With all the recent project action in the Pantera section, it seemed like a good time to post a few images of my (still incomplete) custom induction setup for #1010. If ANY stock carb or manifold parts had come with the car I would likely have dutifully returned it to stock, I thought it would be more fun (?!!) to try something different.  I wanted to run Webers, but didn't want to omit or modify the OEM jackshaft, so IDAs and IDFs were out of the question.  After debating various options, DCNFs seemed to make the most sense, being compact enough to sit in the valley, allow a RH throttle pull, float bowls in the 'proper' direction, and leave the jackshaft totally untouched.

Obviously no manifold was available so it needed to be welded up from whatever made the job as simple as possible. The basic concept was to adapt the top of a Maserati V8 manifold to a Ford tunnel ram bottom, but in practice the dimensions were not all optimal, and the final solution was to cut things into smaller bits and include some Aston Martin V8 manifold parts, including the forward carb perch, which was shaped differently than the Maserati design. 

There was still a lot of fabrication to get from circular carb outlets to rectangular intake ports and keep the transition shapes respectable in all eight runners.  Also it came clear that there was no way to fit a standard distributor b/c the forward carb interfered. This was solved by going distributorless, which eliminated the need to perform an service work at the front of the manifold, where there is NO space! 

So things have only been mocked together so far, and the huge question remains if the motor will run well when everything is ready and first started.  If it works it should sound great  The manifold provides vacuum for the brakes but does not yet have a PCV provision, which I want to hide on the underside of the manifold. Beyond that, fingers are crossed and hopefully a real test will happen in the next few months...…here are a few pics, enjoy!

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15Goose 1010 engine bay 20171210 cGoose 1010 engine bay 20171210 dGoose 1010 engine bay 20171210 n14

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Images (8)
  • 20: Work underway....
  • 13
  • 16: DCNFs with air horns
  • 15
  • Goose 1010 engine bay 20171210 c
  • Goose 1010 engine bay 20171210 d
  • Goose 1010 engine bay 20171210 n: Modified Maser Qporte filter box
  • 14: "Power Bulge" (swaps w/ stock cover)
Last edited by George P
Original Post

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Great job with fabricating the intake manifold. The Webers, of course, look gorgeous.

There are 8 port "distribution blocks" on the market that are perfect for the PCV manifold . Tack it to the bottom of the manifold, plumb it to all 8 runners from underneath. This one is Edelbrock #76578.

edelbrock 76578

Another neat trick for Webers (individual runner induction) is a separate electric powered vacuum supply for the brake booster. It eliminates the power brake vacuum plumbing as an eyesore or a plumbing issue.  Providing vacuum to the booster this way is common these days for electric cars, customs, drag racing, turbo & super charger applications. 

A few OEMs have small, quiet, electric vacuum pumps. Add a small tank for volume & a vacuum switch to turn the pump on & off. I think there are some all-in-one units too; Audi may have one that is popular. It is possible to make this look as OEM as you have the Induction system & air cleaner assembly.

Mount this vacuum "assembly" below the car, immediately under the brake booster. All that is needed is a 12 volt wire for power, and a short vacuum hose to the booster.

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Images (1)
  • edelbrock 76578
Last edited by George P

The Maserati Bora has the same Weber carbs and air cleaner system.  If you read thru old posts about Panteras' with webers and the problems such as not holding tune / sych, lighting filters on fire etc.  I have had none of these problems with our Bora.  I suspect your set up will perform similar to our Bora.  If it does you will be very happy.

All, thanks for your thoughts, I really appreciate the encouraging words! 

Re the carb angles the goal was to retain exactly what Maserati did since that allowed use of the factory throttle linkeage (modded for carb #2 only) as well as the main air box structure, as Italford recognized (different snorkels only required).  I assume the reason Maserati did it was that the RH cylinder bank is slightly forward of the LH bank, so 'opposing' cylinder ports sit at that funky angle.  As I recall Aston Martin has the same basic architecture, and fortuitously it's all exactly like FORD architecture...so keeping the angle was definitely the path of least resistance from a fabrication standpoint.  It also promoted the straightest shot from the carbs to the intake ports.

George, thanks for the Edelbrock idea, like that approach lot. My tunnel port foundation is a bit short on meat where the tubes would connect but I think adding some weld material there would make this possible.  I've definitely learned that compromising on PCV features is bad on a streetcar, one of those things that comes back to haunt you later...

As for the extrusion machining...... I momentarily thought the video link was a preview for some new sci-fi movie.  Amazing tool for sure!

Last edited by nate

Nate,

Lee just mentioned this intake adventure in the post about "old pictures" and I finally found this!  WOWWWWW! Is all I can say!!!

Not sure where I was when you posted this, but it may have been when I was moving, prepping old house to rent, finishing new house to live in, struggling with NO internet bandwidth allowance plan.....glad most of that is thru...!

But WOW!!!!!  That is gonna sound insane!  You need a clear lid for the thing.......and or the provision to go "lidless" for short jaunts!

Glad you were able to preserve as much of the Goose features in doing this, especially after all the REST of the work you're doing or have done!

Steve

It is possible to fit 48IDA Webers and use a jackshaft just not the original jackshaft.

We have this installation on our car.  Used thick wall chrome moly tubing and with 2 x bearings (no centre bearing) with stout alloy brackets.  Still testing Webers vs Holley (we need to change the cam to suit Webers as getting too much reversion / stand off as we call it in UK).

Initially we worried about whip of shaft with just 2 x bearings but critical speed calculations should  mean it's safe in operating range we are using, if not we can adjust pulley ratios to slow jackshaft speed vs engine speed.  Alternatively its not that big a deal to incorporate a centre bearing coming off one of head / inlet studs.

Installation allows both alternator and a/c (a Standen) pump to run in original location (not shown in the long shot pic yet as A/C not installed for racing).

Torque with this set up is immense!!

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Images (2)
  • IMG_0923: (before jackshaft installed!)
  • IMG_5757: Close up of brackets

V8J,

There is a Goose (#590) running around, re- sold back in the 90's, with a Gurney Eagle top end where the installer was able to utilize the jackshaft also!  I think it went in the center under the carb.

It appears that your bellhousing has had the RH mounting boss removed, making it difficult to move the alternator to that boss.

While alternators mounting in the RH area are uncommon, my car (#878) had it there with no apparent evidence that it ever was in the center position.

Of course once you choose a center position, you have things like the distributor, possibly the water outlet, and the water pump pulley to deal with!!!! Never a free lunch......  I am not sure how the builder of #590 dealt with this....no pics!

If you do need a center mount for the jackshaft, you will definitely want an adjustable version......as this has been hashed around on this forum quite a bit...... with aluminum manifolds & heads now more common, trying to keep three holes in perfect alignment is near impossible.  I really don't understand how the Italian builders made it happen such that we don't see reports of busted jackshafts in early writeups.

My own experience was such that I just tossed the center bearing idea in the rotary bin as what I did on the intake off the engine wasn't even close to how it turned out when mounted (alloy intake), and another owner, with stock cast iron engine, broke his shaft in two....with probably at least one more instance in more recent times!  (I had a jackshaft bracket made of 1/2" steel (Boss 302 engine) and the shaft installed easily indicating pretty well aligned.....but still shucked that center bearing after 15-20K miles on it....)

I never experienced any vibration issues with my new 331 and only the end bearings. But my shaft had already been rebuilt/replaced before I bought the car, so was not a stock shaft.... materials could have been better(?).....   Spinning that engine up to 6K would put the shaft speed at around 7K or so with the pulleys that were utilized (fairly common versions).   The bearings are definitely rated for way more RPM than that......

Nice job on your car!!!

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Images (1)
  • joseengine

Thanks for that Steve, do you (or anyone else ) have a picture of the Bellhousing which has the RH boss intact with alternator removed so I can see where mine differs?  To be honest I was ignorant of fact that mine had been modified along the way!

And I should have said to Nate that his solution is far neater than the IDA's (especially the airbox) but not an option for us as our regs stipulate IDA's.  Although jury is out on Mangusta as a race car at moment....



Nate, have you run your car ups yet?  Compared to the 289 in Mustang the Mangusta struggled to breath well over 5,000 rpm, either cam needs changing to suit Webers or the headers are small than the Mustang which isn't allowing gases out There's always something!!

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