Mechanical fuel pump recommendation needed

Jeff,

I highly recommend a mechanical fuel pump over an electric, because when the motor stops, the pump stops pumping. It's a safety issue. They are quieter & installation is simpler. The horsepower level of your motor will determine how much of the stock fuel system needs modification. As horsepower goes up, the size of the tubing between tank & pump and between pump & carb needs to be increased. and larger less resrtictive fuel filters need to be employed. Metal tubing restricts fuel flow less than hose, so use as little hose as possible, always use a tubing bender to make gentle, large radius bends in the metal tubing, never use 90 degree tube fittings anywhere in the fuel system.

There was a new, race quality pump introduced to the market for the 351C last year, manufactured by RobbMc Performance.

http://www.robbmcperformance.com/

here's a link to our archives with info:

http://pantera.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/565004...840019883#3840019883

It is pricey at about $200, but will supply a motor way beyond 500 bhp, and is built like a serious race quality fuel pump should be built.

Your friend on the DTBB, George

quote:

RobbMc Performance

George,
Thank you for replying to my post. When I replaced the carb and manifold I replaced the 30 + year old fuel lines. I am using 3/8" rubber with the stainless covers. The fuel filter is a large capacity in line filtering to 10 microns. The line at the carb is dual inlet of 3/8". The only 90 deg elbow is the inlet to the secondary bowl. Not quite sure how I could change that without going to a hard preformed steel line. This would cause clearance problems with the manifold, which is why I am using the BG braided line.
As for the fuel pump recommendation. I read about the Robb unit on the Cleveland forum. Seems like a nice unit. However my current budget is limited. (Lot's of other needs including the slave cylinder leaking etc.) I received one reply suggesting a std. NAPA pump. It flows 23 GHP @ 6.5 to 9psi. NAPAs parts are usually of good quality, so this might be an option.

I would go with the OEM pump or the standard NAPA pump. Dennis a PPC in Castle Rock recommends the OEM pump too.

I used to swear by NAPA auto parts, but todays NAPA is not the NAPA I once knew. In order to compete with Kragen and the like, NAPA has been forced to source a great deal of their parts from off shore suppliers. I can't vouch for any parts sold RECENTLY by NAPA, it's a whole new ball game where they are concerned.

I work with my local "independent" auto parts supplier to find & order good quality parts, they are still out there, but it is harder & harder to find a distributor that can supply them to a retailer. Or I order name brand parts on line from various suppliers, such as Parts America, which is Kragen's on line parts store. (The local Kragen's does not stock the same parts)

I would need to know the bhp of your motor and I could then spec a minimum fuel delivery for your pump. There is one other pump, sold by All Star Performance, around $60 in price. I can post the info later this evening after I go home if it would be a help.

Just "fueling" around with my friends on the DTBB, George

George,
I have never dynoed the car. But based on it be a pre-L #(4134) with minor mods of intake/carb and headers my guess is maybe 300-325.
I think this is the pump you mentioned. Not sure of psi or the fittings.Do you have experience with this brand ?


http://allstarperformance.carshopinc.com/product_info.p...oducts_id/4552/40263

Jeff,

that's the pump I referred to, I've not used it, it was recommended by a member of the Cleveland Forum a couple of years ago, I assume a recommendation infers he had no problems with his.

I calculated the fuel needs of a 350 bhp motor at 29 gph.

I thought I would use this opportunity to explain the advertised flow specs for mechanical fuel pumps. Mechanical fuel pumps do not pump at full speed constantly, their speed is dictated by the engine rpm. They also pump against a back pressure. The advertised flow figures are quoted for zero back pressure, at an unspecified engine rpm. They flow significantly less fuel with back pressure. The good pump manufacturers will normally provide a graph showing flow verses engine rpm for typically 4.5 psi back pressure. The proper way to specify the fuel flow of a mechanical fuel pump is to specify the back pressure and engine speed at which the quoted flow rating was achieved. For instance, the Holley pump is advertised as 80 gph, yet the real world flow is 38 gph at 4.5 psi back pressure and 6000 rpm. 38 gph will support 450 bhp.

I contacted the people at All Star Performance, they would not provide a fuel flow rating at 4.5 psi, or any kind of graph depicting fuel flow verses rpm, they only quote 120 gph, which is obviously a zero backpressure rating. However, using the Holley fuel pump's performance as an indicator (both are 2 valve pumps), even if the real world flow at 4.5 psi back pressure and 6000 rpm is only roughly 50% of the free flow rating, that is still 60 gph which will support 720 bhp.

Because I've read of several people having failures of their Holley fuel pumps, I perceive the All Star Performance pump as the best recommendation for a budget fuel pump, with a strong suggestion that the RobbMc Performance fuel pump be utilized if the budget allows. The smaller of the 2 RobbMc pumps, rated at 110 gph, actually flows 70 gph at 4.5 psi back pressure and 6000 rpm. 70 gph will support 840 bhp. That's a good pump!

Your friend on the DTBB, George

Jeff,
I am using the Allstar 120 gph pump and I am thouroughly NOT impressed. The crankcase side of the pump was absolutely filthy, obviously not new. I took it apart and cleaned it up, thinking a replacement might be just as bad. This little jewel leaves a couple drops of oil on the floor after driving. The oil is aparantly escaping from the pump where the pin passes thru to support the rocker arm.
Art

quote:

Originally posted by JeffU:
George,
I have never dynoed the car. But based on it be a pre-L #(4134) with minor mods of intake/carb and headers my guess is maybe 300-325.
I think this is the pump you mentioned. Not sure of psi or the fittings.Do you have experience with this brand ?


http://allstarperformance.carshopinc.com/product_info.p...oducts_id/4552/40263

That's timely feedback Art, & appreciated.

That's damn crappy of them to ship you a used pump.I'm sorry to read that. I'm curious, did you contact Allstar when the pump arrived & complain about the condition? If so, what was their response?

Here's the rundown on mechanical fuel pumps, to my knowledge:

If you know of an independent parts supplier, he may be able to find you a pump made by Standard Auto Parts. If so, it will be of equivalent quality as the oem pump.

Carter manufactured the oem pump, it will be reliable if you can find one. I've seen them on ebay.

Ford "may" supply the oem pump. Or they may sell a pump manufactured off shore.

Next step up in flow capacity are the pumps from Holley, Mr Gasket, Mallory. They appear to be the same pump. People have had problems with these pumps failing. I have an older Holley pump in the garage that has "made in the USA" cast into it. I wonder if the newer ones are made elsewhere?

Art has shared a bad experience with his All Star Performance pump, kinda casts a dark clowd over that plan, eh?

Finally, there's the RobbMc Performance pump. Good stuff, but pricey. They are selling them on ebay, by the way.

You know what I recommend, right?

George

All,
Thanks for your feedback on a mechanical fuel pump. It appears that good old Carter (part of Federa Mogul) still makes an OE pump. It is sold through Summit as Part # CRT-M-6882 (Carter Muscle Car Mechanical Fuel Pumps)
It also seems to be sold by NAPA as Fuel Pump OE Mechanical Type) part # NFM6882. They do not call it a Carter but the part suffix and pics are the same. Strangely the Summit says it has 1/4" npt fittings and puts out 5.5- 6.5 lb. While the NAPA states 3/8" fittings and 6.5-9lb. I plan on checking out the NAPA to confirm the fitting size ,but it seems like the best choice for my application.

That's damn crappy of them to ship you a used pump.I'm sorry to read that. I'm curious, did you contact Allstar when the pump arrived & complain about the condition? If so, what was their response?

George,
I did not contact Allstar regarding the pump. I had too many things to do and not enough time to do them so I just fixed the problem that I saw. I'm sure they would have sent me another pump but I had no confidence in their quality control and I thought it would be less hassle to clean the one I had rather than wait for another suspect pump. I was also suspicious of their 120 gph claim. As I recall, others were selling what appeared to me to be the identical pump with a 110 gph rating. The whole Allstar pump deal did not give me that warm fuzzy feeling.
Art

Carter still makes a quality pump, a bonus being that many are rebuildable. My 1970 BOSS302 car still retains its original Carter 'X' pump, rebuild kits are available at a number of places (Kevin Marti, etc), but for those who don't care about originality, it's probably not worth the effort.