MODULAR OR BUST!

resto,

I have no hands on experience "hot rodding" or "swapping" the modular V8s, but I can share a bit of info to get you going.

FRPP is offering a 5.0 liter 400 bhp 4 cam mod motor as a crate motor at $14,995. A 4.6 liter 305 bhp mod motor is offered as a crate motor at only $5,200.

http://www.fordracingparts.com/home/home.asp

A Kenne Bell supercharger is one of the more successful ways to increase the output of these motors, the kits are well engineered, install easily, are compact and look oem.

http://www.kennebell.net

There are ways to boost output through tuning as well, as the 4 cammers are known to be capable of 100 bhp per liter naturally aspirated

Steve Wilkinson (562) 634-3434; and Collectors Choice Ltd (608) 849-9878; are 2 vendors who have experience with mod motor installations.

With the popularity of Mustangs soaring, I'm sure there are engine builders in your area who could share their thoughts on how best to hot rod the cammers as well. I'll offer this one bit of advice: Avoid the engine builders who don't return phone calls or who are reluctant to give you any time discussing your options, because they would treat you the same way as a customer. You don't need that in your life.

I for one would appreciate it if you shared what you learn as your project progresses, perhaps some pics at various stages, etc.

Good luck.

Your friend on the PIBB, George

Mark I'm curious, why do you specify the '03 heads? What factors made you abandon the mod motor?

Your engine bay is "automotive sex" by the way, beautiful.

George

quote:

Originally posted by Mark:

03 head large port heads and great with superchargers.

I can get the same if not more with a 392W engine for power with less money.

Mark - What kind of price are you talking about for a 392? Care to share engine specs and HP predictions?

I'm currently building a 4.6 DOHC engine.
Sean Hyland Motorsports is an excellent source for parts and info.
SHM website

buy his book
4.6L Ford Engines

This book lists all of the differences in parts for all 4.6L variants and states which parts are best.
You don't need the 03 cobra heads, they're not that much better than the 99-02 heads, not anything that a minor port job couldn't exceed. Anyhow, the book states flow numbers and is very informative

The 4.6 is an awesome engine and is a perfect fit for the Pantera!

It is a perfect starting point for a performance build. It doesn't have the short comings of the Cleveland. The Cleveland has a weak block and is just plain old technology. the 4.6 aluminum block from 93 to 99 can be prepped to take as much as 1500 horsepower according to SHM. The newer 00 to 02 blocks are good for apx 900 HP, and the 03 to 04 blocks are Iron and are strong as well. It's easy to get these blocks, heads, and the forged steel crank. I have 2 forged steel cranks and paid apx $250 a piece after shipping.

The biggest weak link for these engines is the connecting rods. The 03 and 04 cobra engine comes stock with Manley H beam rods. You can buy these rods for $500 and they're good for over 700 HP.

Anyhow, don't give up on this engine. It's nothing to be scared of and will be much more rewarding and impressive than an old shrimp boat engine (that should raise some hate and discontent)

Nate

Hey! them's fightin' words.

shrimp boat engine indeed! Huh!

Truthfully Nate, my desire to build up the Cleveland in my Pantera stems from my desire to keep the engine looking oem (modify the innards only) and because I have a garage & den full of Cleveland parts. Plus I know I can achieve the engine I want with it, i.e. reliable, powerful, yet docile & smooth running. I don't expect anyone else to share my decision, and I support whatever path each owner chooses to take. I'm sure a mod motor can be built to provide the same neck snapping powerband a 7 liter Windsor crate motor has.

I would be most interested to read what problems you run into & how you resolve them, more details about your engine as time goes on, photos, what ever you'd be willing to share. I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to the mod motors & would love to learn more.

nice name by the way, my oldest son is a Nate.

your youthfully challenged friend on the PIBB, George

Whoa... nice bay, Mark! I can almost hear it...

I agree with George in the 'to each his own' attitude. Variety is what makes our Panteras desirable works of personal art! We're all just taking different avenues to the same destination. It gives each of us something new to learn.

Michael

But Cyboman, would you be as supportive and understanding if someone was asking how best to fit in a Honda motor and to fitt 22" wheels and tires?? How about if they ask how to install one of those hydraulic suspensions that make the car jump up and down???

You got me there, DeTom! I doubt I would be, but it certainly would be interesting to see the finished project! I'm sure it may even open the Pantera door to a whole new generation of tuners. I, however, am not part of that generation.

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by Cyboman:
You got me there, DeTom! I doubt I would be, but it certainly would be interesting to see the finished project! I'm sure it may even open the Pantera door to a whole new generation of tuners. I, however, am not part of that generation.

Michael

Lol Haha. I have to agree with Cyboman on that one. Even though I am quote "part of the tuner generation" due to my age- I am still far from being 'for' that garbage. If what DeTom mentioned was actually done I believe that would be the demise of the Pantera...

As far as mod motors go- that's kinda my forte.

Restoman- if you have decided to go modular look for a 4.6L Mustang Cobra motor. Make sure it's used and in working condition to save you some dough. Next have that thing bored to a 5.0L "Big Bore" motor. You can leave the heads pretty much alone other than maybe some polishing to clean them up a bit. Then add some 1/2" fuel rails, a 42lb injector, and a blower running between 14 and 19lbs of boost. On the Pantera you'd have to go roots style because I'm not sure of the fit for an S-Trim. (Some of the guys might be able to comment on that) Either way, you are looking at well over 500hp. If you want I can get you more build info for those motors.

(Note: the motor I described along with some added Mustang specific parts is making 620hp on a friends '98 Cobra)

MC '72,

Make that a Kenne Bell blower, which is an "auotrotor" blower, significantly different than a Roots or Eaton type blower. I think once you see their kits, you'll be sold.

None of the centrifugal blowers (i.e. Vortech)are going to fit on the front (or side) of the motor.

Go for the cammer, rock n roll! When do I get a ride?

your friend on the PIBB, George

quote:

Originally posted by Cyboman:
You got me there, DeTom! I doubt I would be, but it certainly would be interesting to see the finished project! I'm sure it may even open the Pantera door to a whole new generation of tuners. I, however, am not part of that generation.

Michael

Yeah I will be dead by then too. There is a bright side to getting old and dieing after all.

Motorcity72, you have some interesting points but I don't quite agree with your philosophy. I'm not saying it's wrong or anything like that because like George stated, everyone's ideas and buildups are valid and a work of art.

But, there's no reason to buy a running engine and pay that extra cash if you're just going to disassemble it and resleeve it for 3.7" pistons to get to 5.0L. These engines use torque to yield fasteners and they are a one time use item that must be replaced when you untorque them. You'd end up spending allot of $ on top of the big bore kit. If you're going to pay the extra cash for a running engine, don't open it up, just put the blower on it as it is.

If you are going to open it, or build one from a parts engine like I'm doing. There's no real point in looking for a Cobra. The Lincoln Mark VIII engine is nearly identical (less the forged steel crank) to the 96-98 Cobra engine. The cast crank is still good to over 500hp according to SHM. So get one of these engines and buy a forged steel crank and some of the newer 99-03 heads.

Also, I don't see the point in putting a big bore kit in it if you're putting a blower on it. The guys with the 03/04 cobras are changing pulleys, throttle bodies and other external parts and getting well over 500 HP at the rear wheels. This is according to my Dyno guy. With blower upgrades and head work they are getting over 600 HP at the wheels.

I'm building a twin turbo setup with T3/T4 hybrid turbos and I'm shooting for a measly 600HP. I'm running a Mark VIII block (93-98 Mk VIII and 96-99 Cobra blocks are the strongest stock blocks) a cobra forged steel crank, Manley Pro Series I beam rods, JE pistons 8.5:1 comp ratio, 2002 cobra heads (99-04 have the single intake runner per cylinder, 93-98 have two runners per cylinder), coil on plugs, and a bunch of other little do-dads.

With the deep skirt block and the 4 bolt main caps with cross bolts these things are bullet proof!

Your friends setup sounds like a hot ticket though. I'm not sure if any blower that uses a belt differing from the 03/04 cobra's super charger belt will fit in a Pantera. From the pictures I've seen, there's only 1/4" clearance with the 03/04 cobras blower.

Just my observations on everything, and that doesn't mean it's correct or the only way.

Nate

quote:

Originally posted by DeTom:
But Cyboman, would you be as supportive and understanding if someone was asking how best to fit in a Honda motor and to fitt 22" wheels and tires?? How about if they ask how to install one of those hydraulic suspensions that make the car jump up and down???

Hold on there, Detom.

I'll take a Honda F1 motor.

22inch wheels won't fit a Pantera, but if they did....you'd see them.

A switch operated, adjustable-height, bladder-type air suspension on a Pantera would be very, very cool. Drop the car to an insanely low height when you're able... very cool.

Kevin

Kevin,

That suspension was offered by Hall Pantera a few years back. I'm not sure if it's still available, and it may have been for the front only. You could raise the cars height for driveways and speedbumps, lower it to the ground for a static car show display, or put it at ride height somewhere in the middle to drive.

Michael

Very, very clean looking Mark.

quote:

Originally posted by Mark:
Engine now

Hall sells a set of shocks that raise and lower the front end for getting over speed bumps and up & down driveways. I'm sure with a little modification you can make them bounce

quote:

Originally posted by DeTom:
But Cyboman, would you be as supportive and understanding if someone was asking how best to fit in a Honda motor and to fitt 22" wheels and tires?? How about if they ask how to install one of those hydraulic suspensions that make the car jump up and down???

I think a Pantera should have a Cleveland. But that's just me.

Matt Merritt
#2171

quote:

Originally posted by Matt_M:
I think a Pantera should have a Cleveland. But that's just me.

Matt Merritt
#2171

What about a Windsor?