New here, treat me gently!

Welcome Jim, you'll find the guys here very helpful in your search, and I'm sure they will be gentle with the "new guy"
Regards Mark

Welcome to the PIBB Jim! You are thinking the right way. We have a few members from England. You will find that there are many Pantera junkies here on this site. We have several respected Cleveland motor specialists. There is another site full of Pantera info at panteraplace.com Mike Daily has put together a buyers guide, and things to look for when purchasing a car. Pantera International sponsors this site, and Dave Adler usually has several cars for sale as well. It seems our cars are rising in value, I belive a Pantera is a great investment right now. Plus a blast to drive. I would say for 45grand you can get a very nice car. Tell us about what you want.......a restored car.....? stock body or wide? How about performance upgrades.

Welcome. I think you are on the right track. There are cars for sale right here at PI. There is a websight by Chuck Melton and he lists some cars. Of course there is always ebay and every now and then, like hemming motor news. Even auto week magazine has a Pantera every now and then.
BTW, TVRs are some cool cars.

Welcome aboard. The Bora may make an interesting project but the Pantera will include all the cool guys that hang out here!

Welcome Jim, there is a project Pantera on 'ebay now, cheap.
I'd like to help you with your tart up project. That sounds interesting.
I wonder if she will tart down too? I supose only time will tell.
Is the plastic fantastic anything like a Griffith?

Welcome, Jim. You will love either car, but even in the UK, your £ will probably go further with a Pantera. I have always lusted after the Bora as well, but when it comes to finding spares and information sharing, you can't beat the DeTomaso community. I trust you ruled out a GT40...

Cheers!

It was always the Lamborghini Miura that beckened me over to the dark side.

Jim, Welcome to the DTBB.

You know, the Pantera & Bora are cousins, as Mr deTomaso ran Maserati during the last half of the Bora's production run (1971 - 1978). Bora's seem to be priced just a bit below Panteras, but they are certainly less common, as only about 530 were assembled, and only about 44 of those were imported to the UK. I think the Pantera has a kinship with all mid engine exotic cars, especially those of Italian heritage. The Pantera has other tie ins too, like Ford powered sports cars in general, and exotics with Dallara designed chassis. One of the joys of ownership of enthusiast cars is the joy of sharing your passion with likeminded enthusiasts. That was one of the aspects of the Pantera that helped me decide on this marque, the Pantera clan are a great bunch of folks.

So welcome aboard! Feel free to join discussions, ask questions, express yourself.

Another member, Pantera Hunter, who joined a while back to explore the goal of ownership, is celebrating his purchase of a Pantera today!

your friend on the DTBB

Thanks for the welcome guys! As you can probably tell, being a Limey I am nicely tucked up in bed when you guys are all in the office posting on here, I mean working.

I am still in the early stages of thinking about this! Nothing like a spur of the moment decision to do something crazy! My wife WILL be pleased. (Not!)

While buying a car that's been done up already means I would not have to do it, at the same time it also means that I would have to pay more for it and lose out on some of the fun of working on it myself. (By which I mean my friendly neighbourhood TVR fettlers, who also work on Cobras and stuff like that.)

So, to answer specific questions, and in no particular order...

Aloha Dennis from Hawaii. Any chicks as well???

PanteraDoug: Nope, the Cerbera is nothing like the Griffith. The Griff had the Rover V8 engine, albeit heavily modified and bored out (in its final guise) to 5 litres. The Cerbera I have has TVR's own AJP 4.5 V8 rqcing engine which produces considerably more power and is a much higher revving engine. Torque is also considerably more, but both power & torque are generally at higher revs (max revs are 7600). So while you can pull away faster in a higher gear in the Griff, drop down a couple in the Cerbera and it will leave the Griff floundering in its wake. Also the Cerb has a racing clucth & gear box and I have had considerable work done on mine both from an engine management point of view and handling. It's got new carbon fibre induction pipes, been rechipped and remapped, and I have had Avo adjustable dampers put on all 4 corners, which improve the handling and the ride. It's also got a sports exhaust and been decatted so pops and bangs beautifully, blows 2ft flames on override and produces a measly 115db at 4000rpm! And there is NO way it would meet ANY US emission controls!

Oh, and it also has 4 seats (though the back seats are really only good for kids up to the age of about 12), and a boot that can hold 2 sets of golf clubs (assuming you a retired and have no interesting hobbies!!!!)

Oh, and I can't afford a Miura! (Or a GT40 , Mark, though I have had the pleasure of going down a UK motorway at 205 in a Mk IV GT40 about 20 years ago)

So for me now it is a matter of doing some research, deciding what I want form the car, what I want to do to it, and generally gerronwithit!

Looking forward to joining in, chaps!!

Welcome to the Forum!

Whether you eventually go for a Bora or a Pantera, best of luck. I've driven both, and to be honest they have somewhat similar characteristics, which isn't surprising considering the engineering, transmission, engine location, approximate engine displacement, etc. The brakes DO take a little while to get used to on a Bora.

That said, the advantage of a Pantera is a more extensive support group, more aftermarket parts (you want more HP? No problem... how much money do you have??) The Driver's Club is active in the UK, although their webpage is not! Contact Phil Stebbings, who kind of organizes the club and knows what is going on. They take a yearly trip to Le Mans (have you ever been?) and have 4 or 5 events scheduled throughout the year. Let me know if you need his contact information and I'll send it to you off-line.

*side note - I've always thought the Cerbera was a cool looking car!!*

You'll find all kinds of advice on buying a Pantera, but if there is one thing everyone agrees on, it is take your time and pick the right one. Like any car that is 15-30 years old it can either turn into a money pit or it can be the best experience you've ever had. Get someone to go with your if you can to look at a car as a sanity check...

Parts are relatively easy to find for the Pantera despite its age, which is a good thing.

Keep us posted, and good luck in your hunt!

Hi Charlie

Thanks for that! I have seen Phil Stebbings details on the web site, so unless they are not current then I can use them.

Are you on Pistonheads??? I think I have seen your car on there...

Don't worry, I know how to tread carefully! After all I do own a TVR!

Give Phil a call then. I don't think he's moved. The best would be able to attend a meeting and see the cars in person, talk to the owners, let them know you are interested. In the UK, the vast majority of cars move by word of mouth... Phil could suggest where to look and give you more names.

I participated regularly on PH for a couple of years. Then I got a real job and that went down the tubes! ;-) I haven't logged on for more than a year, I think, but my Pantera still wears the "Speed Matters" sticker!!!

I miss it, but I have to pay for tires and gas somehow!!! (that's tyres and petrol for you!! ;-)

quote:

in a Mk IV GT40 about 20 years ago

Oh man, I am jealous. I have never seen a real life Mk IV. That is what I have always lusted after. If anyone ever makes a kit of that car, I am done for. My wife will divorce me, my kids will disown me and try to have me commited. I am so glad the real ones are totaly unaffordable.

quote:

Originally posted by Charlie McCall:
Give Phil a call then. I don't think he's moved. The best would be able to attend a meeting and see the cars in person, talk to the owners, let them know you are interested. In the UK, the vast majority of cars move by word of mouth... Phil could suggest where to look and give you more names.

I participated regularly on PH for a couple of years. Then I got a real job and that went down the tubes! ;-) I haven't logged on for more than a year, I think, but my Pantera still wears the "Speed Matters" sticker!!!

I miss it, but I have to pay for tires and gas somehow!!! (that's tyres and petrol for you!! ;-)

There's an absolute screamer of a thread running on the Fezzer, Lambo & Mazzer forum at the moment.

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=255686&f=63&h=0

I don't post as much as used to, I am now a member of a "secret" forum that is invite only where we talk rubbish and have a larf!

I'll give Phil a bell via email, as perhaps that is still OK.

D-man -
Could you send me your e-mail address? I asked a question on your behalf, and will attach part of the reply here. For condidentiality I'll delete his phone number:
Charlie,
Like all these things when you start looking for a car you get some choice but there's usually a load of agenda that goes with each car. There's only 19 GT5S's in UK now, two left the country for an Australian buyer at the end of last year for good money. (£50K unseen not including the shipping cost).

There are two GT5S's for sale at present, one is £75k (see website www.manorgaragebox.co.uk ) and the other is in the order of £50-60k.
The later is in need of new wheels as it has US aftermarket ones that hit the bodywork and deflect the panels and stop it from using full lock, is of greater concern it also has an uprated engine built by a company that has since gone bust and the car is allegedly undriveable and spoilt as result. It needs a new engine.

The best starting place is the DTDC because almost every car is known with the history behind vehicle and previous owners. That said there is a small divide in North and South UK regarding the club at present, possibly as a result of some recent deals and friendships. Some cars are known to be clocked and others purport to be the last cars made, (yet have chassis numbers way before my own)..You need to be on guard.

If you were a serious buyer the best thing I would suggest is to confidentially speak to me (07921 XXXXXX)and certainly before parting with cash. It may well be that compromises have to be taken because of availability and funds but it's best to know what you are getting into first for the sake of some phone calls. Obviously this can be a sensitive issue but to be honest cars that are advertised usually have some reason.

The above is from a friend of mine, Colin, who bought his GT5-S new from the factory... Might be worth giving him a ring. Let me know your e-mail address and I'll put the two of you in touch.

quote:

Originally posted by DeTom:

quote:

in a Mk IV GT40 about 20 years ago

Oh man, I am jealous. I have never seen a real life Mk IV. That is what I have always lusted after. If anyone ever makes a kit of that car, I am done for. My wife will divorce me, my kids will disown me and try to have me commited. I am so glad the real ones are totaly unaffordable.

It was a corker, and also made street legal for UK roads (hence the venture down the motorway!) I thnk it was sold for £2 million or some such ridiculous sum.

It was owned by a client of my father's who sold exotic sports cars. They have a Jaguar XJ220 and an F40 for sale at the moment, amongst the other sub £100k "cheap" cars!!!!

Done Charlie!

There are a couple on Pistonheads, one purporting to be the last GT5S in RHD, but is unpriced, so I sent him a message but yet to hear from him. If it is genuine then I suppose it would be lots of moolar. There is another 79 model and a dip under £20k as well.

As the saying goes,
"You've Got Mail".

I've got it, and I'm replying Charlie!

quote:

£2 million or some such ridiculous sum

Good. Safely out of reach. The ones I worry about are cars where I start scheming on how I can actualy procure them somehow with enough manipulation. They keep me awake at night. As long as a car is clearly unobtainable, I do not worry.
Didn't TVR make a twelve cylinder car that is so fast it scared people to death??
I think the problem you might have is finding a right hand drive. They didn't make a whole lot of them. Like take for instance my car. It is a europeon car sold to an Italian owner. All the gauges are in italian and the spedometer is metric only. But the steering wheel is on the left hand side of the car. So even if a car was made for the Europeon market, it may not be right hand drive. Another thing is I don't have any idea how much it would cost to get a car from here to there. Yes our cars may be cheap here, but by the time you pay for shipping, and get it converted to right hand drive, it may have been cheaper to just buy one laready there.

IF I bought a US car, DeTom I reckon I would leave it LHD. We sensibly drive on the correct side of the road over here but of course they drive on the wrong side of the road on the Continent, like wot you duz. So TBH it doesn't bother me, and I can do Metric and Impervious.

Yup, TVR did make a V12. Called the Speed 12, it was. Here you go... http://www.speed12.info/

Jim,

Welcome to the forum, you have joined a group of guys that are pretty savy and don't mind helping with your questions regarding your Pantera.
Nice ride by the way.
Good Luck in your quest.

Dennis

quote:

Yup, TVR did make a V12. Called the Speed 12,

Yeah, that's the one. Down right sexy.

quote:

Originally posted by DeTom:

quote:

Yup, TVR did make a V12. Called the Speed 12,

Yeah, that's the one. Down right sexy.

Few too many bling wings for my liking...

Nahhhhhhhhhh, a Griffith 400 is the way to go. 1500 pounds with a 289 Ford.
They were all just TVR's before that. It was such a rocket sled that TVR adopted the Griffith model.
But the first one wasn't a factory TVR. It was an American hot rod by Jack Griffith on Long island, NY.
Of course they have this one little problem.
They like to run into stationary objects.

Doug, you talking about one of these things:



I was talking about one of these:


This is the Griffith that most people think of. It started off with a 4.3l V8 Rover engine (Originally derived from a Chrysler block, I believe) and was then taken out of production due to required chassis developments. Came back in again with a bored 5l block. Went out of production about 4 years ago.

Yes I understand. I'll bet you most of the people here have no idea what the 200 or 400 were.
As you will see, I'm not like most people, thank God.
I don't know much about the later TVR's. I had some friends with 200's and 400's in the '70s. Unfortunately they are all dead. Mostly from head on collisions although a couple wereroll overs.
They are leathal little things.
It is difficult to steer a roller skate with 300hp.
I thought that Shelbys, Cobras and Panteras were
a better risk.

We all like to be different Doug! Or we would be in boring Jap or Euroboxes for starters!

The TVRs of the 60s & 70s were pretty unrefined! It wasn;t until the 80s when the Wedges came out and then the Chimaera & Griffith that they started making well sorted cars. Even the newer cars still have reliability issues but if they are used regularly then they tend to be trouble free. For me it is mainly annoying little electrical niggles like door solenoids ("They all do that, sir!") but, considering how much you can buy a 6/7 yr old Cerb 4.5 for they are awesome cars, and with the correct dampers handle as well as their Italian & German counterparts.

Have a look at the current range: http://www.tvr-eng.co.uk

The Sagaris is a little to bling bling for my liking, but the Tuscan convertible is a beaut!

Yes. TVR has come along way.
To me there is something refreshing to the early cars.
Everything today seems like it came out of my computer generated by a Star Trek transportation device, built for you just like Big Brother thought it should be. Including the new Ford GT.
No more sliding plexiglass windows. No more 100db cabin noise. No more black smoke from the Webers. Pity.
I'm not free to decide what I want. That's bad thinking. I need to be protected from myself. Oops, sorry, my 4 point harness was too tight, I couldn't reach the keyboard.

You'd be surprised! TVR still produce cars in the same spirit they always have! There are no driver's aids - ABS, traction control or anything like that. No airbags either. Just sodding great brakes! It's proper driving as it used to be. You have to treat them with immense respect or they'll bite you on the a$$ - once they have landed you backwards in a hedge!

Mine is fearfully loud, with or without the windows up. It's hot in traffic and cold in winter (heaters aren't very efficient!) It smells of GRP and fuel, it projects every bump and dip in the road up your spine, and regularly hits the stops on the dampers with an almight crunch. There is nothing refined about it at all. But it is a great car! My wife hates it with a vengeance, my kids love it!

Unrefinement is fun. Twenty five years ago I could still drive "unrefinement".
No more motorcycles, Cobras, even convertables with the top down for me. Damaged right ear drum, compressed spinal discs, no sign of the reaccuring concusion symptoms any more though.
Geeze, I almost have to drive a Jaguar with an automatic transmission. Pitty.
I like the racing stripes on the 400, or is it an arrow for the driver?
The "Rover" engine original design was an all aluminum V-8 designed by GM. It was used for one or two years, I think 62 and 63 in the first Olds F-85's.
They had the engine in the front with the transaxle in the rear.
GM had too many parties going on and didn't want to pursue such radical thinking. They were going through the Corvair "problem" and didn't need more.
This was also the birth time of the American muscle cars. John Delorean was at Potiac and had this thought about a big engine in a little chassis.
Ford was mixing it up with Ferrari and "Detroit" although not particularly liking each other didn't like Ferrari more.
Enter the GTO.
GM did the "smart thing" and sold the rights to Rover.

I believe that arrow shows the quickest route to the armco!