Official DE Tomaso Heritage

Count me in!

Billy
#3382

quote:

Originally posted by champ:
Phillip the faker on the right place!
Creative with chassis numbers and creative with titles!
Google his name and you will find out.

Of course, using a pseudo is a sign of courage to insult people. Show your real face. Is it just jalousy ?

If I agree with Philippe Olczyk's idea of having the "Official De Tomaso Heritage", I wonder if Philippe Olczyk is the best or most competent person to run this ? Shouldn't it be someone for instance, elected by the majority of past or present owners, democratically ? Someone who was commonly aknowledged as a professional in the 70's, when the DT brand faced its major expansion ? Someone who knew the engineers at the time, someone who founded a Club in period , or whatever the qualification may have been IN PERIOD. In short, someone who was a MAJOR ACTOR AT THE TIME. Shouldn't it endorsed by the new factory owners, and/or the De Tomaso family, and Tom Tjaarda, who designed the Pantera and some other major cars in period.... ? Shouldn't it be a board with several persons, instead of just one man ( one dictator ? ) ? For how long would they be in charge ? Not eternally, for sure, etc etc...Just asking questions....
As far as I am concerned, I will NOT register on the new Facebook website , not because I don't believe that it's a great idea, but because I do not think that Mr. Olczyk is the person who is capable of well representing, with total absence of conflict of interests, and in total serenity, the Official de Tomaso Heritage
Patrick
Candy 2862, ADA 9628, Carbon 3679

"Official De Tomaso Heritage"

Philippe,

I am a bit confused.

Is this a Facebook page created by you? Or by De Tomaso?

Please explain your use of the word "official" in the label of the Facebook page.

To me that means this Facebook page is created at the direction of and with the approval of the new owners of the De Tomaso name.

Is this correct?

Or did you just choose the name by yourself?

Larry

Jeez, it is just a Facebook page. Anyone can make one. If a person with a ton of knowledge wanted to make one, they could have. Still can.

quote:

Jeez, it is just a Facebook page. Anyone can make one.

Cool.

I think I'll start one.

I'll call it "The Official Rever Clothing Page".

NOW do you think Philippe's use of "Official" is worthy of some questioning?

Larry

quote:

Originally posted by Candy2862:
If I agree with Philippe Olczyk's idea of having the "Official De Tomaso Heritage", I wonder if Philippe Olczyk is the best or most competent person to run this ? Shouldn't it be someone for instance, elected by the majority of past or present owners, democratically ? Someone who was commonly aknowledged as a professional in the 70's, when the DT brand faced its major expansion ? Someone who knew the engineers at the time, someone who founded a Club in period , or whatever the qualification may have been IN PERIOD. In short, someone who was a MAJOR ACTOR AT THE TIME. Shouldn't it endorsed by the new factory owners, and/or the De Tomaso family, and Tom Tjaarda, who designed the Pantera and some other major cars in period.... ? Shouldn't it be a board with several persons, instead of just one man ( one dictator ? ) ? For how long would they be in charge ? Not eternally, for sure, etc etc...Just asking questions....
As far as I am concerned, I will NOT register on the new Facebook website , not because I don't believe that it's a great idea, but because I do not think that Mr. Olczyk is the person who is capable of well representing, with total absence of conflict of interests, and in total serenity, the Official de Tomaso Heritage
Patrick
Candy 2862, ADA 9628, Carbon 3679

Of course Mr Hals have all the wrong arguments to discuss this subject because his car Candy have a BIG problem of identity and was without chassis number for a long period of time as a Pantera GR4 with original documentation never left Italy. Now Mr Hals have of course a financial interest to claim that his car is correct when the reality show the opposite. AS I disagree with him, he don t like me and I can live with this.....
When Mr Hals will have spends years like me searching for correct infos on DT, I will accept his comments but his reaction is just pure jalousy which is fine, he is just a human ..no more, no less

quote:

Originally posted by LF - TP 2511:
Philippe,

I am a bit confused.

Is this a Facebook page created by you? Or by De Tomaso?

Please explain your use of the word "official" in the label of the Facebook page.

To me that means this Facebook page is created at the direction of and with the approval of the new owners of the De Tomaso name.

Is this correct?

Or did you just choose the name by yourself?

Correct, I have authorisation from the factory.

quote:

Originally posted by Candy2862:
If I agree with Philippe Olczyk's idea of having the "Official De Tomaso Heritage", I wonder if Philippe Olczyk is the best or most competent person to run this ? Shouldn't it be someone for instance, elected by the majority of past or present owners, democratically ? Someone who was commonly aknowledged as a professional in the 70's, when the DT brand faced its major expansion ? Someone who knew the engineers at the time, someone who founded a Club in period , or whatever the qualification may have been IN PERIOD. In short, someone who was a MAJOR ACTOR AT THE TIME. Shouldn't it endorsed by the new factory owners, and/or the De Tomaso family, and Tom Tjaarda, who designed the Pantera and some other major cars in period.... ? Shouldn't it be a board with several persons, instead of just one man ( one dictator ? ) ? For how long would they be in charge ? Not eternally, for sure, etc etc...Just asking questions....
As far as I am concerned, I will NOT register on the new Facebook website , not because I don't believe that it's a great idea, but because I do not think that Mr. Olczyk is the person who is capable of well representing, with total absence of conflict of interests, and in total serenity, the Official de Tomaso Heritage
Patrick
Candy 2862, ADA 9628, Carbon 3679

And to show the wrong behaviour of Mr Hals, this one delete all my messages because he didn t like my answer to him.
No worry, I don t care
And we are making the project with the factoty to make a factoty team in historics, with original cars, no MICKEY MOUSE .

quote:

Correct, I have authorisation from the factory.

Just reposting Philippe's response to my question.

His response was somehow inserted into the quote of my question and was not clearly visible.

Seems like the new DT folks are ready and willing to join the 21st century.

But I'll still keep my all steel, pushrod V-8, non-computer Pantera and remain happy.

Larry

quote:

Originally posted by LF - TP 2511:

quote:

Jeez, it is just a Facebook page. Anyone can make one.

Cool.

I think I'll start one.

I'll call it "The Official Rever Clothing Page".

NOW do you think Philippe's use of "Official" is worthy of some questioning?

Larry

Deal! I will give you 10% of any sales that come through the page. I wish you would start a blog for me too.

I should clarify. I completely understand what everyone is saying about using the word "official". My point was simply that it is his page (right or wrong) and there is no voting about who runs it. And arguing about who should have/own/run a page about Panteras is irrelevant as it will be done by whomever wants to put in the effort. A good fan page will attract members. I poor one will not. It doesn't matter what it is called. Dang it, I did it again. I know it DOES matter what it is called, as a separate issue, but the name doesn't mean it is going to gain traction.

I would love to see the new owners take the brand seriously enough to flex their muscles when it comes to IP. We will see.

Come on guys, you got one shot to get it right and it looks like it has been blown.

If this guy is not official and no one from deTomaso steps in to say "who is" then,

we are screwed, again, and no respect will come our way.

quote:

If this guy is not official and no one from deTomaso steps in to say "who is" then,

we are screwed, again, and no respect will come our way.

Uh, Kerry.

Read my last post.

He replied he has authorization.

Larry

quote:

Originally posted by LF - TP 2511:

quote:

If this guy is not official and no one from deTomaso steps in to say "who is" then,

we are screwed, again, and no respect will come our way.

Uh, Kerry.

Read my last post.

He replied he has authorization.

Larry

I did, and he seems kind of angry...

Gentlemens, let s give to the new factory a little bit of time. New car at Geneva, new dealership etc. I had a meeting with them and understand that previous customers are very important.
The new factory is now inside the Pininfarina factory. More news soon.

PLease tell me what do you expect from the new owners. What are you waiting for, what is your needs. Please, they are here to improve things.

Ideas, just brainstorming:
-emails with updates on progress of new cars
-word about what they plan to do for DeTomaso version 1 car owners
-a web site in English
-invitations to factory or presentation of new cars
-last but not least a car that represents the DeTomaso philosophy: Value for money, simplicity, 95% of the performance at 70% of the price etc.

I hope the new brave people doing this recognize that without us, the DeTomaso name would have no value?

One thing above all................PANTERA!!!!!!

I did forward your message to the factory to the direction, more messages to them with your needs, I will forward EVERYTHINGS . Thank You

You all of you, have a unique chance to speak to DT owners who want to listen.
Send tell me what you want.
Thank You

It would be nice to see the new company owners to use the existing DT community to test their idea's.

Let them for instance create a website where we as owners can log in, and comment on idea's/previews/sketches/etc... If you see at the commotion the new logo only can cause... And I don't like it much neither.

After all, it would make little sense to come up with a car (or cars for that matter), not even little (or even worse, none) of the current DT owners feel like buying no?

Sure, whatever they will come up with, will be way different from the "old" cars, that's inevitable due to the changed laws and standards, but it would be sad to see the current community turn away from the brand, because of what made, we not longer feel connected to DT.

I personally can't see why one would for instance buy a DT SUV, at least not now. I'd like to hear them explain why they think there is a market for such a "vehicle".

quote:

Sure, whatever they will come up with, will be way different from the "old" cars, that's inevitable due to the changed laws and standards, but it would be sad to see the current community turn away from the brand, because of what made, we not longer feel connected to DT.

Substitute the word "Porsche" for "deTomaso" and you get an idea of what long time Porsche owners thought about 911's being water cooled and the company building an SUV.

quote:

Originally posted by four walling:
Substitute the word "Porsche" for "deTomaso" and you get an idea of what long time Porsche owners thought about 911's being water cooled and the company building an SUV.

I thought to mention Porsche, but couldn’t find the words…

With its super sports car background, I don’t see why the new DT company would come up with a SUV, at least not now. Don’t know whether the Porsche SUV is by now accepted by the Porsche community, but the thing seems to sell well (you see plenty of them in Europe), and with the SUV, Porsche offers Porsche enthusiasts an alternative. But to bring a car company like DT back to life again, and then immediately launch the idea of building a SUV…. Is something I don’t really get. And if it were a huge powerful SUV like for instance the Cayenne, those are less and less accepted, at least over here…

The world is too tough of a place for a boutique car manufacturer to survive.

I think reviving the deTomaso marque is a lost cause.

In my opinion, changing the De Tomaso logo so much and then developing an SUV as the lead-off vehicle is senseless. The primary value in the De Tomaso brand is only there if the owners build on the heritage of the marque (sports and racing cars).

If the intent is to sell SUV-type vehicles, then there would likely be better recognition and brand awareness under the Rossignol name. It will be quite challenging for a boutique manufacturer to compete in an SUV market that has come to expect extremely high levels of refinement, technology and value — not to mention reliability. This is particularly true when that manufacturer is previously unknown in that (or any current) segment.

A safer bet would almost certainly be the high-end sports market that De Tomaso was (is) known for. The customers in this space are more likely to be making emotional purchases (vs. practical or economic-based ones) and although expectations are still high, there is probably more acceptance of quirky imperfection that is likely to exist in the first model produced.

I wish them well, but I am disappointed that the "Panthera" concept we all went weak over a short while ago is NOT going to be the first new De Tomaso. I hope the company survives what I fear is a big mistake.

Mark

One would think that after so long that they would want to come out "Guns a Blazin" with their Pantera "Big Gun" to put them on the map and open the door for future markets. I for one am dying to see the Pantera but, next to zero interest in anything else.

Sirs, I did transfert your comments to the board of directors of DT. They will be read. Please continue as we all feel that your feeling and comments are important.

To further support my contention above:

Consider the success (not much) of Laforza as well as the Lambo LM002 to niche cars like Spyker, Pagani and Koenigsegg. Sure, none of us want (OK, can afford) another $1M supercar, but that's where the money is. Even relatively affordable TVRs and Nobles have done alright.

I hope it's not too late to cut a deal with Stefan Schulze.

Mark

I spoke with a gentleman who has connections with the new DeTomaso organization. There is a better chance for success with the new SUV in Europe, where these types of automobiles are more popular. The Rossignolos are experts in aluminum automobile architecture and the new SUV would be very light in weight and what I am told, an amazing design. What is not clear is if it will have a Ford, BMW or GM engine and whether or not it may even be a V8. Those decisions may not have been made quite yet. Anything other than a Ford V8 would be of less or little importance to me in an exotic car. Of course, maybe the views of current owners are of little concern.
I hope there will be a connection and genuine engagement between the old or current, I should say DeTomaso owners and enthusiasts and the new factory personnel and future owners of the new cars as well. It would be very sad if us "old" owners were simply written off as unlikely to purchase the new cars.
Historically, I think back several decades ago when Alejandro was still alive and he dispatched the then head of production, Giorgio Montagnani to the 1987 POCA Las Vegas Fun Rallye. I interviewed Mr. Montagnani for the Pantera Profiles Magazine that I edited. I asked Mr. Montagnani what he thought about seeing all of the Panteras (200 of them plus) in attendance and all the festivities. He seemed very nonchalant and unmoved, telling me that he couldn't understand what all the excitement was about over old cars when the owners could be buying Maseratis instead (at that time Alejandro DeTomaso owned Maserati). In other words, money had already been spent on Panteras and us owners should be thinking about buying the latest DeTomaso cars instead.
Years later, when the failed Bigua was first introduced at the European DeTomaso Owner's Meeting, DeTomaso himself made a speech to the gathered owners primarily attempting to steer us to that hideous automobile that was clearly pre-destined for failure. Mr. Qvale and his organization only added fuel to the fire and hastened the demise of the car when the Isis logo was pried off and thrown in the dumpster. Not having Tom Tjaarda involved was also a drastic mistake because there was not a respected "pitchman" for the Bigua/Qvale Mangusta.
I hope that the new owners of DeTomaso will take stock of the loyal enthusiasts who own or have owned DeTomaso automobiles and carefully consider why we are so passionate about our cars and incorporate our experience and preferences into the next generation of DeTomaso automobiles. The winning combination of an American V8, Italian styling by Tjaarda and great value for the dollar are time-proven assets. If this proven formula is disturbed, history will repeat itself.

Olczwyk,

I doubt that the DT Board has any interest in what we say. We are NOT their target. If we were, they would be destined for failure.

We are hard core Pantera enthusiasts. Old school afficionados. Dave's insight, noting the comment of DT's head of production some years ago, when faced with 200 Panteras in Vegas, is very telling.

Face it, we're just motorheads who like American V8, tons of torque and although we appreciate the Italian style, we wouldn't buy one if it had a small high tech ceramic engine or (yawn) a super electric motor that could hit 250 mph.

Let's face it, as far an any relationship goes, the DT factory could just as well be any other Italian car maker.

quote:

Face it, we're just motorheads who like American V8, tons of torque and although we appreciate the Italian style, we wouldn't buy one if it had a small high tech ceramic engine or (yawn) a super electric motor that could hit 250 mph.

I plead guilty to the above statement.

quote:

Originally posted by David B:
Olczwyk,

I doubt that the DT Board has any interest in what we say. We are NOT their target. If we were, they would be destined for failure.

We are hard core Pantera enthusiasts. Old school afficionados. Dave's insight, noting the comment of DT's head of production some years ago, when faced with 200 Panteras in Vegas, is very telling.

Face it, we're just motorheads who like American V8, tons of torque and although we appreciate the Italian style, we wouldn't buy one if it had a small high tech ceramic engine or (yawn) a super electric motor that could hit 250 mph.

Let's face it, as far an any relationship goes, the DT factory could just as well be any other Italian car maker.

Let me assure you that your comments are read by the Top Management as I m in contact with them every week, even every day.They bought the history of DT, they bought the Heritage and they understand the value of it, this is the reason why they contact me when they saw the official DT book that I ve made from the archives. I assure you that you are the VIP for them, now we will find out soon if the new products please you.
Regards

If they are so intrested, let them talk on this forum....

quote:

Originally posted by Dago:
If they are so intrested, let them talk on this forum....

This is the reason, I m here !

So are you a member of the new management just because you wrote a book ? I mean why will you do all this work for them. what's in it for you? To my knoledge the factory is closed and the owners are on holliday's

But He, what do I know????

I m not a member of the new management, but I work with them.

But it is not such a strange question,

I don't know you personally,but I know you have a bid of a history on your side. I don't know what's the truth or not, and I don't care ( I don't own a Bizzarini )
But to buy a factory and start building car's is a multi million project. You can be certain that they have a big marketing team investigating what the best way to go is. In other words how to sell as many cars as possible.
Now us Pantera owners are just a couple of old gearheads living in the past. We like big polluting noisy engines and mechanicks we understand. But above all we like to give modern Ferrari's a run for their money. We are just like the old two on the muppetshow. I don't think many pantera owners would trade their cat for something moderns, to become just like the rest. Maybe some would buy one on the side, but not many. The factory must know this, so I can't inmagine that they are really intrested in our opinion. This called evolution!
So why are you saying that the factory is really intrested in our opinion? You can't blame me for raising an eyebrow. What should I do ? Do I have to warn people aboud your questionable past, or should I be happy with all the work you want to do for us ? I am not convinced.
So without jumping to conclusions or judging you I ask the question again, what is it you really want, what can you mean for us and what is in it for you?


rgds Arn

Sir, as a historian, I cannot please everybody with my research and books. Like everybody even include yourself, I have people who like me and some who don t but this is not stop me of doing what I like. Concerrning DT management, you should be proud that they have interest to listen to what the previous owners feel. And like in all business, some like it and some will not. You cannot please everybody, the most important thing is to do what you think is right. After history will show you was right.