Original wheels and tyres.

Funny, I logged in just now to send a message that an original set of tires is going to be up on Ebay !  The seller has original valve cover emblems up for sale, along with quite a few Memorabilia. Chatting with the wife, she mentioned that they sold the car 10 years ago, but still have the tires.....that he husband is still on the forum--so I figured by the title, you'd be him (!) but no, just wild coincidence. 

One of the memorabilia is an interview with Mort Sahl, who owned an early car (pre 8ma~750, I guess) and talked about the Cinturatos. My picture of the spare on 8ma1046 was a Cinturato CN72. One thing I'd never noticed before was the valve stem,  maybe someone knows for sure that it was or wasn't really original to the Goose but apparently the Bridgeport knurled knob and sheet metal cone were shipped on Miura http://www.miuraworkshop.com/tavtire.html . Ok, along with the lobo hanging on the wheel and now this, something new to find...!

The owners' manual (another Ebay piece) quotes Dunlop tires at 185/225 HR 15, on 7.0 and 7.5" wheels. Hopefully one of these 2 brands will be offered soon on Ebay, or I've really messed up the sell of 'for show only' tires...

Interesting in the Mort Sahl interview, he quotes 400 cars being made--this in a June 1969 publication, of course before all the cars had been made. Interesting that DeTomaso already seemed to be a plan on when to finish...Lee 

Wasn't there a rule that to be considered a "production car" and thusly eligible for some races that they must produce 400 cars...  The 401st added was the one-off Chevy engined goose built for Bill Mitchell.

I know the Miura was originally planned to only build 400, hence the name P400 (Produzione 400).  Granted they built much more once sales took off...

I was wrong once in the 70's, so I'm overdue for a potential error...   So who knows...

MH

Sure wish they would produce repro Pirelli Cinturato CN72s in the correct sizes for Mangustas…...

Btw, Denis corrected me (Mike, I'm usually wrong more than once every 40 years...I think I've made a life out of it, actually ) but apparently only early cars had 7.5" rears-- rears went to 8.0"--Lee

ps. ..and my guess is that that one time in the 70's you weren't wrong, just early...

Just to add. I have build sheets for 3 late cars . The details state Pirelli VR tyres

I would also like to add the following interview with Gandini (around 9:35) Gandini says he would use the wider tires if he redid the car today. That is my excuse to use more rubber on my car.

https://www.driveexperience.it...SL618-ZJiOp5mfpdiR_Y

How interesting, I've just always assumed that ratio tires and date codes always existed...but as I read, the CN72 was an 80% ratio (vs. everything else at 82% before)...so rears would be like a 245/70 (for sidewall height).  

..also, that date codes started around 1971. I tried looking at that picture of the spare on '1046 to see one before learning they didn't exist, at least on originals. I'm curious, do repro tires have date codes? 

What was the hot Dunlop tire in 1967? Lee

MH

As I undserstand it there were 401 cars built. The Bill Mitchell Mangusta / Corvette is car number 8MA670.  It was not built at the end of the run.  I have had that car since September of 1969.

I have heard that the last car built, the on that is #401 ( I do not know the actual number), was built for Gene Bordinat from parts after he became Design VP for Ford. I went to his funeral when he passed away and discussed the car with his widow.

Ford Design or Gene Bordinat did not understand the Giugiaro design and made alterations to the car that are completely out of character with the original design.

Forgotten is the fact that the Mangusta is built on a racing chassis and was intended to be a racecar for the street.  This is covered in the owners manual by de Tomaso himself.

60 series tires came out prior to 1969.  185 and 225 X 70 X 15 tires are shown on the original Giugiaro signed drawing of the production version of the Mangusta.

7 inch rims in the front and 8 inch rims in the rear.

My book,

BELLA MANGUSTA, The Italian Art and Design of the De Tomaso Mangusta

covers all of that.

DICK RUZZIN

402 cars.....some day this number should be accepted....and published....    One made for "King of Mexico" had an entire spare car worth of parts sent with it......requirement by Mexican gov't.   This "spare" car was also assembled from the parts and apparantly has a chassis number.....  Pic's and history were posted of these two cars in the last few years on this website.

The Bordinat car is chassis number 1196, way before the last.....it MAY have been one of the last cars assembled by the Germans...but not the last of the cars.....those were reserved for RH drive construction, 10-12 versions of such.

Dick,

How is it that your car wears clear front turn signal lens?   Was it a Euro car deflected to GM?  I thought that the amber lens AND the side markers were Fed mandated requirement for US sales....   What did I miss here?  Still a sharp looking ride!

...I met Dick at the 2016 Concorso Italiano and I think I asked him about his marker lights...and well, he liked the Euro clear better ! I didn't ask about the blackened trim, but didn't the first few cars have that way (esp, the one with solid rear bumper and Lancia teardrop side marker lights up front, on the 'brochure' we see?)

Btw, hard to believe the math, but a 225/80 would be a 180mm wall, so a 255/70 or 295/60...or 215/70, or 245/60 for the front. So unfamiliar seems an 80 series tire to me. I went lower ratio, but 70 series is probably the best fit for the car.  

(ps. would be nice if someone other than Vito could tell us from the records if 1302 was the last official car. The date on the bulkhead glass sticker for '1046 was September 1969...but seeing that 1008 had the same sticker and date, that was probably just the date the stickers were made. The distributor on '1074, was date coded December 1969...I'm curious how fast cars were really made at Ghia....). 

...Ok, another thing that will drive me crazy until I can find them....2 more pics of the valve stem and air cap, one from 8ma502 and the other on the spare of 8ma998. Next time I see a perfectly restored Miura on the street, please look the other way Lee

(fyi, link on these valve stem 'sleeves' on Ferrari...maybe time to learn how to spin a metal cone http://www.tomyang.net/cars/innertube.htm )

Hi

These aren't perfect, but i think it might be the closest we can get.

Front: 185R15 is the same diameter as a 205/70VR15. Pirelli make a 205/70WR15 Cinturato CN12 https://www.longstonetyres.co....-cinturato-cn12.html . I think that is pretty good.

The back is a little trickier. However Pirelli have also made some special tyres for the rear of the Muira SV. It is a 255/60WR15 Cinturato CN12.  https://www.longstonetyres.co....-cinturato-cn12.html Now my assumption is that this will be a bit smaller in diameter than the original 225R15 or 235R15, as in theory they should be 80% profile tyres. However there is tolerance within the measurements and there is a chance that these original rears were not actually a proper full 80 profile.

There are a few attractions to this set up:

they are W rated

they are Pirelli

From ythe side they look a bit like the CN72.

the 255/60VR15 CN12 is the talles widest road tyre i know of with a decent speed rating an without horrible white letters on the side.

What do you think.

If you look on  those web pages that have put links to you will see pictures of the tyres and if you scroll down you will find the dimesions of the tyres.

There is a picture of the CN72 on here https://www.longstonetyres.co..../cinturato-cn72.html

VERY IMPORTANT!   Keep in mind that overall diameter is very important.  The smaller the tire is the less clearance you have between the bottom of the bellhousing and the road!

You can, with adjustable coil over shocks raise the back of the car but that will give you a bigger gap between the tire and the wheel opening. Also, you will feel a difference in handling as raising the car in the rear changes the center of gravity.

This is not good.  The tires I have now,  235X60X15s in the  front and 275X60X15 rears all made by BF Goodrich. White letters in the back and painted black. The company is now owned by Michelin, now on my second set and they are better than the first. I am happy with them in almost every way.

THE ONLY PROBLEM.

Ride, the rear tires are rated to carry the weight of the entire car!  The tires are stiff for my light car and I would like tires that would give me a better ride.

I appreciate the work that you have done on this subject.

Go to VeloceToday.com, there I have written an article in two sections that compare my 50 year old Corvette powered Mangusta to my new C8 Corvette

DICK RUZZIN

I forgot to add that my original Semperit tires were 70 aspect ratio, I still have the original spare in the car.

DICK RUZZIN

at 689mm diameter, pretty big round tire...!  Lets see, how quickly can I get my present tires to wear out...

  Dick, cool article on the C8/your car. Striking always how small and low the Goose is compared to even other sports cars...

Edsel Ford lives not far from me and he got one of the first production GT 40s.

I was in the Mangusta and saw him driving. I will never forget the look on his face when I pulled along side and he had to look DOWN on me.

DICK RUZZIN

...you know, if that story involved a race for pink slips that you won because he didn't know you had a Chevy 327 instead of a Ford 302, it wouldn't be any better. That beats any car story I am ever going to have...! Lee

When all the high octane gas went away I had to lower the compression so had a 350 crank put in and a new high torque cam. I can drive at 1000RPM in fifth gear and floor it , accelerating smoothly.  A great motor..

DICK RUZZIN

Ok, found a repro of the pieces that were certainly junked when your tubes were pulled out...and you'll need a 5th for the spare...and unless you are back with tubes will have to trim down both the sleeve and also take a die to your valve stem to install them...and the knurl on the valve caps should be straight, not checkered...but at least, you know they are available See the Tom Yang article (earlier this thread).

https://kilimanjarodesigns.com...lve-stem-protectors/

(I think I'll still have a try myself chucking up and trying to spin the valve stem sleeve myself first, round blanks are available and I got a metal cone to acts as the form...and then drilling/tapping the common (aluminum) knurled adjustment nuts I have...Lee)