At this point the compression ratio wouldn't tell you a lot, only way would be to tear it down and look at the parts installed, that is assuming it is all still original.
There are recounts of De Tomaso invoicing for high performance engines and not actually installing them!
If it has the paper trail to document what it is and history then it's worth what a GTS is worth, without that it's just another Pantera IMO. No wait... it's got those moon roof thingy's, take 20% off!
Julian
would the Marti report provide information?
Thanks Guys, I also ordered a Marti report and spoke with RS Corse...still working on getting more details...will keep you updated
I have my doubts that the Marti will provide much. I like the reports for other Ford Products but they lack a lot of information for the Pantera. In Marti's defense his reports are only as good as what he could get from Ford and I think many will agree that the paper work especially regarding specifics between Ford and Detomaso are less than thorough or complete.
quote:Originally posted by Otis:
I have my doubts that the Marti will provide much. I like the reports for other Ford Products but they lack a lot of information for the Pantera. In Marti's defense his reports are only as good as what he could get from Ford and I think many will agree that the paper work especially regarding specifics between Ford and Detomaso are less than thorough or complete.
The Marti report will show if the car was a US sold car. It will show the dealer and the first sold date.
It will also show the serial number which will tell the unit number and the original build date.
Ford HAD ACCURATE records on that and by agreement with Marti, gave or sold those records to Marti. Those are Ford's records of US cars. Period. They are accurate.
Marti does not have Warranty service records on the US Panteras.
It will not, of course, show the "day two" modifications. The modifications on the Pantera under discussion are "day two" even if the "factory" did them.
There are no Marti reports on Euro sold cars. Only US cars sold through Ford.
A car that was sold new in the US is very unlikely to have been sent back to the factory for modifications.
If you think about it, the US cars and the Euro cars were actually two different car companies at the point of Ford involvement until the point that Ford abandons the project, sells the remaining cars on the assembly line in Italy to Detomaso for $1, and gives Detomaso the dollar to buy them.
At the time of US marketed Panteras, if one purchased a Pantera in Europe, you would not get a US bound car "pulled out of the line" by Detomaso. Those were Ford of the US property.
Euro Panteras were not assembled on the assembly line. The shells were delivered separately and assembled separately to the specs of which country they were going to and what the original buyer wanted added or deleted to the car.
Where their serial numbers fell into order with the US cars would only be shown in the Detomaso records, not the Ford US records.
Ford owned 80% of Detomaso, giving Detomaso 20% and all of the Euro market.
I would maintain that the Marti report is essential to determining all of this since it positively identifies a US car.
My opinion for what it is worth, which granted isn't very much, this is a modified "US" car being sold by someone who has no ability to determine the real facts and is singing a song that they think sounds right to a buyer.
So really the question to me is who is the nature of the buyer on Panteras now? Are they educated buyers or are they speculators who are hedging their bets?
There is no question that this information has been talked about here before and if one pays attention would have read this info here already. There really is no longer speculation about it being a US or Euro car if it has a Marti report for it.
Of course this forum is a loose association of many with no requirement to attend or pay attention. There often is so much accurately detailed information that one likely would miss it if they were causal observers that just dropped in occasionally "reading the headlines" and not the text, like skimming a newspaper for easy details.
I often need to go back at a later date to review what was posted and realize what I missed the first time through. Maybe missed even the second time as well? It sometimes seems to have gotten to the point that some of this information could be considered well beyond even a Master's degree but you might need a Master's in Panteras just to realize it now?
Thank you very much for all your help on this endeavor!
Yes you will know if it is a US Pantera and you will get the dealership that it was "sold from," however just as with Shelby's (or lots of other cars) it doesn't mean that it was actually sold from that dealership to a customer. I could be wrong but I believe that these numbers do not take into account of dealer transfers. Were Pantera's only ordered from or sold at certain authorized dealers? I have been told that you will not find a Ford era Pantera with Canada on the Marti report even though you could buy one brand new in Canada. Can anyone confirm this? I know for sure that one Calgary Ford Dealership that was not Metro Ford the authorized Shelby dealer, often picked up performance cars brand new through Great Falls Montana. From looking at some of the Marti reports Great Falls moved quite a few Pantera's I would say more than what was likely actually sold by them to real customers. I know we are not talking about a Pantera north of the border, but it gives an example of how cars could be moved around by dealers.
If you find where the Pantera was listed as being sold from, they may or may not have records of the car being sold in house or moved to another dealership. Another dealership could very well do modifications and there would be little to no paper trail.
If you find where the Pantera was listed as being sold from, they may or may not have records of the car being sold in house or moved to another dealership. Another dealership could very well do modifications and there would be little to no paper trail.