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Pantera powersteering… why? which and how!

panteradougpanteradougMember
@jffr posted:

I haven't driven my Pantera with the SACC power steering, but will be in a few days. One question that I have is how hard will it be to steer the car if the power assist unit loses power or fails? I am sure that it will be possible because a lot of new cars have electric power steering.

It will just feel like it did before you put the PS in.

I opted for Bruno's automatic "communications satellite" device. It adjusts the boost automatically determined by the vehicle speed. That's what the satellite is needed for. There is at least one in orbit for everyplace on the planet sans Antarctica. Works well.

The only criticism I hear is from those who didn't invent this first? Those guys can get really nasty at times.

I realize that sometimes my socks don't match but there is a logical reason for that. It apparently escapes them?  They don't need to point that out to me. I already knew that. I like to solve problems simply.



I advise putting in the 100amp alternator though. The PS motor takes a lot of power even though it is such a little motor.

Last edited by panteradoug
LeMans850iLeMans850iMember
@jffr posted:

I haven't driven my Pantera with the SACC power steering, but will be in a few days. One question that I have is how hard will it be to steer the car if the power assist unit loses power or fails? I am sure that it will be possible because a lot of new cars have electric power steering.

you already have it installed?? If so - that’s how it feels - ignition off… wheels on the ground - not moving!

once you drive things are changing.. does your PS decrease assistance?


The drag of the EZ system is like what a well greased bearing feels like when you turn it.. I did try that when it was still out…

installed you can’t detect an increase in effort when not powered up!

Last edited by LeMans850i
LeMans850iLeMans850iMember
@panteradoug posted:

It will just feel like it did before you put the PS in.

I opted for Bruno's automatic "communications satellite" device. It adjusts the boost automatically determined by the vehicle speed. That's what the satellite is needed for. There is at least one in orbit for everyplace on the planet sans Antarctica. Works well.i advise putting in the 100amp alternator though. The PS motor takes a lot of power even though it is such a little motor.

I did do the alternator upgrade 👍

In some tunnels in Switzerland or Italy I do loose the satellite (GPS goes offline) but how often do you parallel park in a tunnel 🤪… - parking garages I don’t know..

my main reason for opting for this system was the small motor and the angle the motor sits in the system.. it points upwards maybe 11 o’clock.. you don’t even see it and it doesn’t interfere with the legroom on the left side!IMG_1915

the bottom of the “Brain-Box” I pretty much flush with the steering column cover..

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LeMans850iLeMans850iMember
@jffr posted:

I just did my first test drive with the SACC electric power steering unit and I am impressed! It wasn't the easiest project that I have ever done on the Pantera, but it was well worth the expense and effort.

Congratulations !
That is great to hear!! Nothing to do with “wimpy” - it has to do with making something more enjoyable! And yes, it is quite some work and quite some expense but so worth it!IMG_1928

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J jffrMember
@LeMans850i posted:

Congratulations !
That is great to hear!! Nothing to do with “wimpy” - it has to do with making something more enjoyable! And yes, it is quite some work and quite some expense but so worth it!IMG_1928

Thanks, but due to a recent shoulder replacement, this power steering unit made driving the Pantera so much easier. What also helped me to go with power steering was a professional race car driver and driving instructor at the Inde Motorsport Ranch. He really liked driving the Pantera, but wasn't thrilled by how hard it was to steer at very low speeds. I plan on going back to that track before the September Pantera Prowl event there and doing some testing.

LeMans850iLeMans850iMember

It is an absolute joy…. People tried my car and were amazed.. what a difference on my car between power steering on and off. It is absolutely stunning… So much easier to maneuver

I really encouraged to go that route. It makes the car so much more Enjoyable.

And with the system I  used, you cannot even tell it’s there… Nothing protrudes out in a weird way..

Last edited by LeMans850i
bosswrenchbosswrenchMember

If you get hooked on club racing or just want quicker steering, there is supposedly an optional pinion gear for the stock Pantera steering assembly that bolts in and quickens it notably but is uncomfortably heavy for everyone. I believe that pinion was used in the GR-4/GT-4 racer steering boxes. But with supplemental power steering, the effort should be tolerable even combined with wide tires and the near-mandatory extra front caster.

We 'survivors' are all getting older- pay no attention to the scoffers.  Someday their physical bodies will be in our same condition.

panteradougpanteradougMember

It is difficult to explain exactly all of the positive changes that the EPS system makes. I personally think that it is a very worthwhile addition to make.



The variable boost control is from Bruno in Portugal. It really is a very clever addition. Probably in fact genius.

The manual control, potentiometer (turn knob) is also from Bruno for that matter.

You do not NEED the automatic version per se, but it just makes the EPS that much better and that much more sophisticated. It's worth the extra cost.

If you already have an EPS installed with the manual control, you can replace it with the automatic version easily. It is just a plug in.



My initial concern with the installation of any EPS, was the degree of cutting needed on the Pantera, and the loss of foot room. As it turns out, neither is an issue although It does depend on which EPS unit, the system that you are going to use is based upon.

Mine is based on the Toyota Yaris, but not just anyone. A right hand drive version is what it is. That locates the motor in just the correct orientation to avoid the Pantera's electrical wiring and controls on the right side of the steering column.

The left hand drive Yaris motor would be the mirror image, but exactly reversed and would be a  "no can do" in a Pantera without major relocation of Pantera harness components.

In fact, it fits the Pantera so well it suspiciously appears as though it was designed for the Pantera.



Heck. There are "stories" of the US being in possession of crashed "Alien" space vehicles and "reverse engineering", i.e., stealing that technology. So if they can do it, why can't we do it with Toyota?



The power of the Yaris motor is also well matched to the size of the Pantera, so that it is not too powerful for the Panera. Some of the US based motors are simply because they are intended for much larger and heavier vehicles.



Furthermore, Bruno's controllers are based upon the Toyota EPS system since as it turns out, Bruno is the original designer of it for Toyota.



So to all of you who are reading this who don't really understand any of what I am saying because it is too technical and over your heads, bottom line is, you will not be disappointed in having an EPS system in your Pantera and it will be especially effective if you have gone to the Group4/GT5 10" wide wheels in the front, since it will virtually eliminate all the existing steering wheel chatter that you have that is really caused by bad, non correctable front steering geometry on the wide fender cars.

The Pantera accepts the EPS exceptionally well and for sure would have been original equipment in the car when it was new, if it existed then. With the variable boost control module, the car has EXACTLY the right feel at ALL speeds.



I personally would caution all about using a "fast steering gear" with EPS since it may make the car too responsive for an average driver and the plain fact that with EPS, you simply will not need it.



This is a million dollars or more's worth of development technology that you are getting for what turns out to be a very reasonable price. The "how to" is being shared with you for free.

If you get one, buy one, or make one, you cannot go wrong but be warned, the foot box is tight under there and you cannot drive the car wearing snow skis. You must take those off. Just so you should know. Don't say that I didn't warn you!

Last edited by panteradoug
panteradougpanteradougMember

I don't think that the model year matters. The motors are the same as I recall?Go to Bruno's web page. He will list the years that his controllers fit.

The Yaris column you throw away. You just use the motor and adapt it to your Pantera steering column.

If you can find a Capri steering column there on UK Ebay, you can use that and save your original in case you don't like the EPS but I think you will LOVE it.

Those controllers are the ones being sold in the kits. Those controllers are from Bruno. He makes them.  He's very easy to work with and very easy to contact but the modification of the steering column is up to you. It is very high quality stuff he makes. Maybe NASA quality?



In the case of the complete Pantera kits being sold, the steering shaft is already done for you and you just swap the parts in.

Considering what I have seen with your engineering and fabricating ability I think it will just be a fun project for you. For others it might just be past their abilities and too challenging? For them they would be best off to deal with SAC Restorations. For what they are charging in "assembling a bolt in kit" for you is more then reasonable. They've done almost all of the work for you.



The most difficult component to come up with now is the Capri steering column but they do come up on the UK Ebay on occasion. If you find one, that needs to be shortened anyway even if you were using it to replace exactly your manual Pantera steering column, so finding one works out well.

It is also the most expensive part to find once you do.

For the sake of discussion, Wilkinson sells new Pantera steering columns but they are pretty expensive.



Essentially what you are doing is shortening the Pantera steering column and splicing in the motor, fabricating a support bracket and wiring the motor and controller. You do not need to be NASA to do this but it is on the side of advanced "Hot Rodding".

It is a popular modification for American street rodders but not with the Yaris unit. Most use a GM unit which is too big to use in a Pantera but the street rodders are using Bruno's controllers also. He's the Man on that part.

Last edited by panteradoug
panteradougpanteradougMember
@rene4406 posted:

It is true that you can easily find Ford Capri steering columns on Ebay.co.uk at +/- 100$; do you know if the MK I, MK II or MK III version is important for the part you get?

It is very interesting, I think it will be my next project.

What is in the Pantera is what the Brits are calling Mark II's.

Don't worry about buying too many Capri steering columns. You probably will be able to sell the extras for more then you paid.



When you get the Capri and the Pantera columns side to side, you will see that the Pantera is a modification of the Capri. For the Pantera, it is shortened and a bracket added for mounting the directional signal.

The original weld where they shortened the shaft is a bit crude. Even my welding is better then that.



When I spliced everything in, I did weld it but didn't rely on just that. I used a coupling and a 10-32 aircraft hex through bolt and nut for extra measure.

I didn't want the steering wheel coming off in my hands while just driving down the road. That would be the wrong kind of a "rush".

Last edited by panteradoug
panteradougpanteradougMember

It is amazing to me how the Pantera is so adaptable to being modernized. Adding EPS is just one example. Updating the electronics another.

The only other car with roots this old that I can think of that is this adaptable is the  Porsche 911? Maybe the Pantera has that beat?

I think that it is just a tribute to how good the original concept and execution is?

panteradougpanteradougMember
@bosswrench posted:

Doug, maybe its just me, but I find that Porsches are an excellent source of parts for the contemporary Pantera....

I like Porsche. I can see a Turbo 911 as my street car. I don't know how to put roof racks on it to carry my lumber and ladders though?

I don't think I can afford the tires especially needing new ones every 2,500 miles?

Then what kind of transmission? Stick or thumb shifts? Life is too complicated?

Last edited by panteradoug
panteradougpanteradougMember
@Rob Fridenberg posted:

I traded a 911 Turbo for my Pantera.  It had 500 factory hp, incredible suspension and brakes. It was so highly developed that the driving experience was too easy. The Pantera experience is raw and I love it!

I test drove one last year. The dealer wouldn't let me drive a stick so it was the thumb flipper thing.

It reminded me of a video game with a kind of lack of reality that I am used to?

Neanderthals die hard. Even in Italy.

LeMans850iLeMans850iMember
@davidnunn posted:

That's the EZ Electric Power Steering kit, made specifically for the Pantera. Other electric power steering systems may be more obtrusive.

That is correct… the angle of the motor is about 11 o’clock while others may get to 10 o’clock

when you Open the door and look in the car you cannot tell it’s even there… Do you really have to go on the floor to see..

It’s a fabulous system ☑️

it cost a few hundred more but so worth it I think…

Last edited by LeMans850i
davidnunndavidnunnMember

Roland,

I believe mine was the second of the three prototype systems. I sent them my column, so they could make sure what they produced was correct. In fact, it's my column that's on their web site, with their EPAS installed . You can tell because it has a custom ignition / turn signal cover. Immediately after my installation, I sent them photos and comments about how much easier "the tube" made the installation. At the time, the system was new and they were selling quite a few, so they weren't entirely receptive. It seems they're more receptive now!

panteradougpanteradougMember
@davidnunn posted:

Roland,

I believe mine was the second of the three prototype systems. I sent them my column, so they could make sure what they produced was correct. In fact, it's my column that's on their web site, with their EPAS installed . You can tell because it has a custom ignition / turn signal cover. Immediately after my installation, I sent them photos and comments about how much easier "the tube" made the installation. At the time, the system was new and they were selling quite a few, so they weren't entirely receptive. It seems they're more receptive now!

What is the "tube modification"?

Last edited by panteradoug
LeMans850iLeMans850iMember
@panteradoug posted:

What is the "tube modification “




instead of mounting with two bolts left and right,  one tube is welded in between the two ears and one long bold is inserted to attach the rear mount of the power steering assembly to the dash structure. I didn’t see any possible way to get into that area to get nuts onto the 2 bolts once the system is in place.

you can find what the details on page 2 of this thread we are originate.

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R rene4406Member

Yes, I know you also need the ECU and the control module. The ECU can be found on Ebay for about $75
https://www.ebay.fr/itm/375891...D518089856d144e40b1a e3e593fbd6128%26pid%3D101465%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D375891166614%26itm%3D3 75891166614%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D3814323&_trksid=p3814323.c101465.m3507
And the control module with speed-related regulation at Servtronic for also $75
https://www.servtronic.com/col...g-controller-box-kit

That's a total of +/- $175 ........plus possibly a Capri steering column at $100 if you want to keep the original one intact and especially "a few" hours of work

panteradougpanteradougMember
@LeMans850i posted:




instead of mounting with two bolts left and right,  one tube is welded in between the two ears and one long bold is inserted to attach the rear mount of the power steering assembly to the dash structure. I didn’t see any possible way to get into that area to get nuts onto the 2 bolts once the system is in place.

you can find what the details on page 2 of this thread we are originate.

The Yaris assembly does not need this type of modification to mount. The logical thing that is happening here is that I used the Yaris and EZ used another source.

There are several possibilities.

I went through a few trial fits with others. I liked the Yaris fit the best and also like the dependability of Toyota components.

Hearing/reading, that Bruno was the designer of the EPS for Toyota and knowing he is THE source for the "control box" is just a plus.

Last edited by panteradoug
panteradougpanteradougMember
@rene4406 posted:

Are you sure it's the Mk II because according to Wikipedia the Type II appeared in February 1974? But that may not matter since it needs to be modified anyway.

No I am not. I am saying that the people in the UK were referring to the shaft as a Mark II. They are basing that on the UK Capri, not on the US Capri so yes there is some confusion there.

I did that research about three or four years ago and never did get a second shaft for a spare. The first one got cannibalized for my first attempt using a GM EPS.That one fit lengthwise but hung down too far and interfered with the pedals.

It was a necessary exercise to learn the critical dimensional limits that the motor must be limited too. I sold it to a local street rodder for more then I paid for it and it is in a '32 Ford street rod and he is happy with it so nothing ventured, nothing gained,

I did learn quite a bit from it. I don't remember how exactly I discovered the Yaris but it was a coincidental thing. Someone else had one and I saw the size of it and how compact it is.



When the Yaris got here from the UK, I just went ahead and modified my Pantera's column.

When I finally got a hold of the Yaras assembly and realize how well it fit dimensionally I just went ahead with my project.

My decision was that if I had to return to stock I would highly likely be able to find eventually the right Capri column.



I believe that is Larry here that suggested it is a Capri I column as well.



IF WE were being extremely careful, it logically would be prudent to obtain a Capri I and a Capri II and then compare those to the Pantera column. They still sell and are sought after for various reasons and you can always sell the one you don't use?

You need to realize that the Pantera column is a modified Capri column and the difference between a Capri I and a Capri II may not make any difference to a Pantera? It may just be in the mounting bracketry of how the directional signal, ignition switch and column support bracket to the dash is formed and mounted to the tube itself? It is not a major difference.

The difference could also be in the length of the columns?



If you are seriously considering building your own, get the Yaris column first.

Then look at my finished Pantera pictures and compare the before and after. Look at everything that got trashed from the Yaris. Very little of the Yaris bracketry remains and almost none of the drive shaft since it gets spliced into the Panteras steering wheel splined hub shaft and adapted to the Pantera's D shaft on the other side of the motor.

No rewiring is necessary. Just installing new quick connect wire ends to the existing harness and running the big power wires directly to the battery.



It is right to be as comprehensive as you can be at this point but you need the Yaris in your hands and the Pantera column on the bench to see how to homologate the two together.

It is fun. It is a little bit worrisome at first because of the unknowns. If I can do it, you can too. This is not NASA here.



Strange. I was just re-examining my own pictures of the steering shaft. When I total up the components on it, it does wind up as a bit expensive from tip to tip? Strange in that it does look innocent enough just sitting there on the bench too but quite a few engineered components involved.

My first reaction was that I was pissed to the finished column. The reason being that I had engineered an adjustable height mechanism from a Honda Civic in to it but the adjustable drop bracket was too flimsy to use with the EPS so I had to give it up.

Last edited by panteradoug
panteradougpanteradougMember
@LeMans850i posted:

@panteradoug I just want to ask about the dropping the steering column feature you abandoned because it was too flimsy… Under what circumstances do you think you want to lower the steering wheel in the Pantera…

does the Yaris EPS gives you a lot more room with the steering wheel… Does it mount higher?

The Civic mechanism is fine without the Eps but the EPS is torquing the column, i.e., twisting it. I didn't want to risk that on the Civic mounting bracket.

The height adjuster bracket is just stamped steel but the main issue is it needed to occupy the same space as the EPS bracket. It was just a height adjustment device for the steering wheel for better driver position.



The Yaris unit is smaller then most, maybe the smallest and gives more toe room. It is so tight down there that anything helps BUT all Panteras look like they don't have enough foot room to begin with. That is not true as delivered new but looks like it is too tight.

It isn't so much that the EPS hangs down but needs room up in the dash to fit the motor in. You have things like the defroster duct to deal with. I have the single pod dash and internally, under the dash is different then the dual pod.



You just will not find a more compact unit then used in the Yaris and it orients to the Pantera exceptionally well if not perfectly. I'm just sharing what I discovered and am not attempting to disparage anyone else's different solution. They are ALL excellent solutions.

I am capable of engineering or more correctly reverse engineering this stuff while others are not. So they need to go to predetermined existing solutions.

I am more adventurous by nature.

Last edited by panteradoug
panteradougpanteradougMember
@rene4406 posted:

Here is what I received:

20250123_15100320250123_151012

It is not exactly the same as yours but since it is to adapt I hope it will work.


A confirmation please, the short shaft goes on the rack side and the long one on the steering wheel side?

Yes. You have that correct. The motor on yours is taller then mine.

The first thing that you need to do after you remove your existing steering column is to hold that one up under the dash to confirm that the motor will clear everything inside of the dash.

I am pretty sure that mine was listed as from a 2003 Yaris. Mine showed immediately that it was a very good fit.

You are going to reuse the Pantera D shaft, universal joint and connecting yoke.



The output shaft on the Yaris needs to be shortened. I ground a flat spot into that shaft so the yoke could orient itself securely. There won't be any splines left on the shafts. They are in the wrong place so don't worry that you realize they must be cut off. That is correct.

The top of the motor input shaft is the tightest fit. You want to leave as much of the Pantera splined shaft (steering wheel side) in place so that it does not affect the ignition switch assembly and interlock to it.

The mounting bracket for the motor you need to make. That isn't complicated and you mount that to the motor where the Yaris bracket attaches to.

There is a control box from the Yaris that you do need also. I think that I had to buy that separately? The Brits have a habit of completely disassembling everything from the system rather then selling it all as a package.

I think that is because  in this case there is substantial demand just for the control box? I don't know enough about the Yaris to understand why but in a way it is a benefit that you can get another control box separately if need be?

It is not a difficult column to build and the challenges you will soon discover are really rather minor.

In my case, I had already moved the steering wheel as close as possible to the dash to gain more leg room so in retrospect on my conversion that was the cause of the close fit of the input shafts.

There you are going to need to make a judgement on where to cut the shafts.

IF by chance that you find you are too close to the dash, you can just relocate the mounting bracket to the dash and move the steering wheel out.

The D shaft that goes into the rack is plenty long enough to still engauge with the tube in that case. Check that but I think there is about 2" that you have to play with as I recall.

If you look at the pictures on how I received mine and what the finished shaft came to be, you will see that the motor and that little control box is basically all that will remain when done.

Don't cut any of the harness off of it. Those plugs just plug into the other control box and I have seen those sold separately as well so apparently people hack those off without knowing what they are doing?

The Yaris is a strange little car and probably the original buyers of them are even stranger?

Last edited by panteradoug
R rene4406Member

The end of the engine is 200mm (8'') from the center of the column.

20250123_151003 repérée

I'm not going to do this project immediately, before I have to finish reinstalling the engine in the car after repairing the lifter breakage and as I took the opportunity to replace the air conditioning compressor with a Sanden, I'm spending time with the adjustments of the support, there is very little space.


Afterwards I will have to take the car back to my body shop so that he can redo the paint that he missed the first time, so I won't take care of the EPS before spring or early summer but I'm gathering the elements when I find cheap ones on Ebay.

I found a Capri steering column in France at less than 30€ including postage, I still have to buy an ECU.

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panteradougpanteradougMember

I didn't keep a record of that dimension. I will be back under the dash soon and will try to get a number for mine but it appears that your motor is taller or maybe that is just the cover for the motor.

I don't recall an issue of it touching or coming close to touching the inside of the dash. In my single pod dash, there is a defroster grill that is supplied by a duct hose that is close to the top of the motor.

I suggested the Yaris also because as installed it orients itself in the 10 to 11 o'clock position which is pretty much ideal. There is some degree of minute adjustment to that possible by realigning your mounting bracket design.

panteradougpanteradougMember
@rene4406 posted:

I found and bought the correct ECU for £37 including postage and customs fees.

So I got the engine, ECU and steering column for about  $100 .


I will just have to buy the control module from Paulo ANTUNES.

Either the manual control with the adjustable control knob or the automatic that contacts a GPS satilite are fine. I like the automatic version. There you do not need to find a location on an already cluttered interior dash panel.

I think that it gives the right feel to the steering and keeps the EPS from over-boosting the assist at high speed. It certainly is worth the cost to me.

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