PANTERADOUG - "I do not have the air bag front shocks but it's a consideration and an acknowledgement that may be inevitable." -- Have you had a look at this hydaulic system? https://www.ramliftpro.com/ For some reaon I have an 'aversion' to airbags - and I am certainly going to give the RamLiftPro a go.
JTPANTERA - Sorry - I missed replying - yes - ensuring the 'asthetics' are correct by ensuring the flare is centred over the tire is a must - and with me being somewhat of a 'pain in the are for detail' - I would have to pull it all apart and do it all over again if the tire//flare thing was out of whack.
David Nunn - I didn't say it was a good modification. But the lesson-learned, for the point of this thread, may be that changing one thing often leads to unintended consequences in another. Which goes back to the rationale for testing the design virtually. The solution to "the problem" that you noted was obviously to limit the suspension travel e.g. by reducing ground clearance enough to ensure the ball joints never exceed their design range ;-)
Moby935 - "does anyone see any potential issues with what has been done to the Ring Brother's vehicle suspension?" I'd recommend the C7 vs. C6 uprights. But other than that, I'll back slowly away from the topic of "issues" with the RB car. You'll find lots of opinions on that.
And not sure the "La Pantera Bianca" would have made a good street car (if that's what you're looking for). But you could probably replicate something similar. Step 1 - buy a Formula 5000 car ;-)
davek, I apologize if I implied you were endorsing the modification. That wasn't my intention. This was more than 20 years ago but I recall the Adler's telling me it was impossible to make the modification work. It was a good idea but very poorly executed. Since the new mounts were welded to the chassis, removing them was a major undertaking and not done without much thought and discussions with more than one race car chassis builder.
The only feedback I've heard re: the RB suspension was that the hydraulic power steering was horrible. The road tester drove the RB Pantera and a stock '74 GTS back-to-back. He said the '74 GTS was nicer to drive, probably due to the fact the RB Pantera had never been properly sorted.
Someone on this forum called the Roadster Shop and asked the price for the RB suspension. If I recall, it was around $30,000. That's certainly much less than the six figures the chassis costs!
A little tongue in cheek, but IMO if you are determined to design all the 'quirks' out of the Pantera you might as well go buy a modern sports car...
DAVEK - HA - no way was I implying that the "La Pantera Bianca" was intended for the street. aaaaand F-5000 is coming into the stable very soon - plus a 'one of a kind' GP5 vehicle - I will post a photo when I have finalised delivery.
Re the RB vehcile - the only thing on that that has any interest to me is the possibility of it suspension - the rest has no interest to me - great workmanship (from what I can see) - and in my opinion - the interior looks like it comes straight out of something from the mid 80's and destined for cruise night in DOWNTOWN DUBAI - crass and I would rather walk - but - I am sure that someone enjoys it and that is all that matters really.
DAVIDNUNN - USD30.0K does not seem like a 'silly price' and is certainly worth a look at - but getting it installed here in Australia may be where I 'run up against a wall'. I will 'quiz' the RS as to the option for installation.
I would prefer not to 'hack up' the Pantera for a complete RS chassis - hence just the RS suspension is worth a look at. I much prefer to leave as much of the Pantera monocoque intact as possible.
In my opinion - gutting the Pantera and ending up with the 'tortoise shell' of the monocoque welded to a complete RS chassis detracts from it being a Pantera. I have the same line of thought when I build V-twin engined bikes from the ground up - I ALWAYS use a factory HD frame - and a few other bits like tank//s - forks remain factory HD - and in 'my mind' I end up with a custom built HD (I have ZERO interest in new showroom HD - I would rather walk) ------ I have seen lots of well built custom V-twin engined bikes that use aftermarket frames - but in my opinion - they are 'kit bikes' and I sort of feel they have no real connection to the 'real thing' – and I would feel the same with a complete RS chassis – but - each to their own. The more I think about a complete RS chassis - the more I feel the same way about retaining more of the ‘DNA’ of the factory build Pantera. But the RS suspension is certainly on my 'must have a look at' list.
JOULES – In reference to the mention of "quirks" - it will never be my intention to rid the Pantera of its "quirks" - my intention is to get the vehicle low without excessive negative camber and also have it with the drive-train specs that I want (HA – and they may have a few “quirks”. Whether it rides like a big go-cart or not does not concern me at all - I have always specified and driven 'go-cart' suspension like setups all my life (HA - except in the wife's vehicles) and if someone in the passenger seat is not happy with the 'race car like ride' - they can get out and walk - HA. HA – a HURACAN 2 WD EVO with a 850 hp supercharger kit is my “modern sport car”. HA – guess which one I will enjoy more – hint – it starts with the letter ‘P’. If out with the wife and I have had one too many BEERS to drive home – she can drive me in the EVO – if we take the Pantera (one day when it I completed) – HA – both of us will be walking home. Same with bikes – if I wanted to get rid of “quirks” – I’d but a HARLEY or a BMW with ABS – cruse control - radio etc etc – NO thanks. HA - ‘cheating death’ and coming out alive is ‘half the thrill’ of driving a ‘go cart’ or riding a bike with “quirks”. And I am sure that we would all agree – that none of us would be driving a Pantera if we wanted a ‘quirkless’ vehicle – HA – a Toyota Camry achieve that outcome (not bagging the Camry – a great everyday shopping car).
Moby935, you can get the Pantera to sit low without excess negative camber, without resorting to RoadsterShop suspension. All you'll need is shock absorbers with adjustable spring perches and adjustable rear upper control arms.
Most of the other items you've asked about, such as a front mounted A/C condenser and electric power steering, have been discussed in these forums at length. Just use the search function.
DAVIDNUNN - Thanks for the info re the air-con and steer topics - I will 'stumble my way around' in the archives and locate.
I may be 'over thinking' the suspension modifications and 'worrying needlessly'. I will get to doing some product availability research on the items you mention "All you'll need is shock absorbers with adjustable spring perches and adjustable rear upper control arms." Any suggestions on a QUALITY supplier of such?
But - erring on the side of caution - maybe this could be more streetable - HA - no risk of manhole covers or kevlar undies required.
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Call Scott at SACC Restorations. They are a sponsor of this web site. If you want to go low, he can help you!
DAVIDNUNN - Thanks - will do.
Julian - Unless I've totally mis-read this thread, (and also being a bit "tongue in cheek"), I think the objective here is to design in *new* "quirks"?
DavidNunn - Thanks for your clarification. And valid point that the mod from "more than 20 years ago" was not w/o issues. (Also, I think it was more like 30 years ago - installed on the Adler's car in 1992 if I remember correctly. Either way, it was a long time ago!) Yes, the camber curve was definitely quicker, but perhaps the "better" part of that design was the adjustability to change the pick-up points and alter the resulting roll-centers based on the intended application. But again ... *not* an endorsement ;-)
Moby935 - As mentioned, depending your overall priorities and objectives, you'll likely find various suspension parameters to be a bunch of trade-offs. For example, if radically limited suspension travel is required by a "low low" ride height, more (compared to stock) static neg camber might be desirable for optimal cornering ... depending on how you define "optimal".
I think, as DavidNunn may be suggesting, your answer may be simpler than you think (and already proven by existing Pantera vendors / owners). Plenty of experience shared here by folks on this forum.
Will be interesting to hear which direction your project takes!
Dave
This ALL looks and sounds like a "reinventing the wheel" scenario.
No matter what you do. It's still going to be round and someone else still won't like it.
I know you're not into bag type suspension, but if you're looking for something independent to raise and lower your car but still sit on adjustable coil overs for driving low then these may be an option. Old school Fat Jack built these on my car: Pantera GT5S - Shocks To Raise The Front | JanDaMan | Flickr
DOES200 - They look interesting. What sort of lift does it achieve? Could they be installed front and rear? HA - I assume that video of someone with a red Pantera carrying a matching color dining table across the back is your vehicle? From that angle, you get an idea of how 'substantial' those rear spoilers actually are. Thanks.
KW Suspensions makes a universal hydraulic suspension lifter system that's similar to the RamLiftPro. Not cheap though!
@Moby935 posted:DOES200 - They look interesting. What sort of lift does it achieve? Could they be installed front and rear? HA - I assume that video of someone with a red Pantera carrying a matching color dining table across the back is your vehicle? From that angle, you get an idea of how 'substantial' those rear spoilers actually are. Thanks.
I never measured the height achieved with those independent riser strut thingies. But it isn't a fast riser either, but good for speed bumps or steep driveways. They just put them to raise the front of the car, backside always sits low. Yes the wing table is excellent for holding my corona with lime.
DOES200 - HA - I will have to get you some better beer than Corona.
SOME PANTERA TRIVIA - An episode of the 70's TV show called THE SWITCH with ROBER WAGNER and EDDIE ALBERT (etc) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KxcPSzNXNs - @30:24 a PANTERA comes into view --- and again later @ 40:40 we see more and eventually some PANTERA action (HA - albeit with dubbed engine sound).