Shelby's thing used a 318 Mopar engine. They tried and tried to get the next size block in- a 360- but it was simply too bulky to fit. So to save face & stir the pot, they souped up a 318 which barely fit. I doubt if the car was scrapped either- Shelby didn't throw stuff away, any more than DeTomaso did. Likely a 351-C went back in & was sold thru a broker somewhere. Nowadays of course, there are so many stroker kits & aftermarket blocks around, it might even have been possible.
Personally, I think the whole Chrysler thing was some sort of ploy- no way would DeTomaso have ever gone in business again with Shelby & sold him bodies after his screwing over their joint effort Sports 5000. The chassis of which became the Mangusta, and you know the story on where the name came from.
It is said that everything Shelby did after the Cobra/Shelby GT programs with Ford ended, including anything he did with Chrysler was just in waiting to get back in the good graces of Ford.
Look at where SAI is now with Ford.
The Dodge program was just rubbing Fords nose in the do-do. I suppose Iaocca at Chrysler was too?
The reality is that Shelby never did anything, or very little, with his own money. Ford payed for everything and essentially Shelby had what we now call a personal services contract, with Ford.
Shelby was a front man for Ford. Detomaso was a front man for Ford. With the Italians that rubs them worse then others.
Detomaso was just your average European millionaire. Not capable of operating himself in the big leauges like Ferrari. He needed backing.
As a manufacturer he didn't have a pot to piss in and back stabbing by people like Ferrari in Europe is unequaled anywhere else. Enter Ford.
This is the way Ford operated on these projects, including with Detomaso. They just cut to the quick and bought in and used their enormous clout to expedite everything from suppliers. Truth is Ford lost money on every Pantera that was built, and every Cobra.
Didn't matter. The publicity was worth more then they ever lost and made it happen today, not ten years down the road.
Detomaso was guaranteed money on every car he built and Ford sold. The "investment" in the Cobra has to be the best money ever spent by a major auto manufacturer. They still are reaping rewards from it to this day.
Ford eventually bought controlling stock in Ghia, purchased Vignalle, and when the Pantera project was cancelled sold Detomaso the 75 cars left on the assembly line for $1.
They just abandoned Vignalle and walked away from them. I don't think Ford liked the petty demands shoved at them by the Italian work ethic and procedures. This was payback to Vignalle.
Ford continued servicing Pantera parts to the legal letter of the law and dumped them as soon as the clock hit 12:01 midnight on that date.
That's just the way it was.
It is said that Henry Ford himself spent his personal money on these projects. The GT40 program alone is said to cost $15 million in 1965 dollars. It is thought that the true number with everything was around $250 million.
Essentially this is all because Ferrari backed out of the deal to sell to Ford after they shook hands on it.
It isn't just sports cars that were involved here either. NASCAR with Holman-Moody was too.
No one ever said that Henry Ford was a good guy, but without his maniacal ways NONE of this would have every happened. It likely will never happen again either.
Oh and not to get all manical on my own but if you want to swap out a Ford engine for a Chevy, or a Mopar or a BMW in a FORD Pantera...just doesn't make sense to me in the overall picture of things. Just emphasizes that you built a street rod, which of course is anyone's prerogative.
Would you do that in a Cobra too?
Makes about as much sense as the Cobra electric car to me, but hey it's the irrational ideas that sometimes open a new avenue of creativity that no one ever thought about before?
Look at where SAI is now with Ford.
The Dodge program was just rubbing Fords nose in the do-do. I suppose Iaocca at Chrysler was too?
The reality is that Shelby never did anything, or very little, with his own money. Ford payed for everything and essentially Shelby had what we now call a personal services contract, with Ford.
Shelby was a front man for Ford. Detomaso was a front man for Ford. With the Italians that rubs them worse then others.
Detomaso was just your average European millionaire. Not capable of operating himself in the big leauges like Ferrari. He needed backing.
As a manufacturer he didn't have a pot to piss in and back stabbing by people like Ferrari in Europe is unequaled anywhere else. Enter Ford.
This is the way Ford operated on these projects, including with Detomaso. They just cut to the quick and bought in and used their enormous clout to expedite everything from suppliers. Truth is Ford lost money on every Pantera that was built, and every Cobra.
Didn't matter. The publicity was worth more then they ever lost and made it happen today, not ten years down the road.
Detomaso was guaranteed money on every car he built and Ford sold. The "investment" in the Cobra has to be the best money ever spent by a major auto manufacturer. They still are reaping rewards from it to this day.
Ford eventually bought controlling stock in Ghia, purchased Vignalle, and when the Pantera project was cancelled sold Detomaso the 75 cars left on the assembly line for $1.
They just abandoned Vignalle and walked away from them. I don't think Ford liked the petty demands shoved at them by the Italian work ethic and procedures. This was payback to Vignalle.
Ford continued servicing Pantera parts to the legal letter of the law and dumped them as soon as the clock hit 12:01 midnight on that date.
That's just the way it was.
It is said that Henry Ford himself spent his personal money on these projects. The GT40 program alone is said to cost $15 million in 1965 dollars. It is thought that the true number with everything was around $250 million.
Essentially this is all because Ferrari backed out of the deal to sell to Ford after they shook hands on it.
It isn't just sports cars that were involved here either. NASCAR with Holman-Moody was too.
No one ever said that Henry Ford was a good guy, but without his maniacal ways NONE of this would have every happened. It likely will never happen again either.
Oh and not to get all manical on my own but if you want to swap out a Ford engine for a Chevy, or a Mopar or a BMW in a FORD Pantera...just doesn't make sense to me in the overall picture of things. Just emphasizes that you built a street rod, which of course is anyone's prerogative.
Would you do that in a Cobra too?
Makes about as much sense as the Cobra electric car to me, but hey it's the irrational ideas that sometimes open a new avenue of creativity that no one ever thought about before?
Looking very GT40ish. That's ok. They could model after something much worse, but why not just start with a close GT40 replica.
There are things that can't be done on a Pantera that a "40" already has.
Maybe I'm just misunderstanding and they are just a modern day George Barris.
There are things that can't be done on a Pantera that a "40" already has.
Maybe I'm just misunderstanding and they are just a modern day George Barris.
quote:Originally posted by PanteraDoug:
Looking very GT40ish. That's ok. They could model after something much worse, but why not just start with a close GT40 replica.
There are things that can't be done on a Pantera that a "40" already has.
Maybe I'm just misunderstanding and they are just a modern day George Barris.
You got that right, good old George. Will be interesting to see how it turns out. We have all seen many a Pantera deviating heavily from the true design, where the end result just doesn't quite fit the car. However, if we didn't have innovative designers & builders pressing the limit of modification, we would just be stuck with our good old stock design. I look forward to the result. They take credit card when done?
I think of this way, this is what happens when people get these cars too cheaply. Just speculating here but these guys probably paid nothing for the car. Maybe traded a used Cushman or John Deere at most.
I don't think the Pantera design needs to be improved, or for that matter can be improved much at all. Tom Tjarda should be very proud of it.
The criticism I see against the original design is that it is just so pure. Ironically anything that gets done to change that seems to change it dramatically.
I've seen a spotted leopard, a black one, and a white snow leopard. All with just color changes seem to be a different species.
Tjarda with the cleanliness of the design also found a common denominator of sorts with it. My compliments to the chief, Tom (just in case you are listening).
I don't think the Pantera design needs to be improved, or for that matter can be improved much at all. Tom Tjarda should be very proud of it.
The criticism I see against the original design is that it is just so pure. Ironically anything that gets done to change that seems to change it dramatically.
I've seen a spotted leopard, a black one, and a white snow leopard. All with just color changes seem to be a different species.
Tjarda with the cleanliness of the design also found a common denominator of sorts with it. My compliments to the chief, Tom (just in case you are listening).
The Ring Brothers Pantera belongs to the Widow of a man who's dream was to "resto-mod" his Pantera. He died before he had a chance to see his dream become a reality, so his Wife decided she would have Ring Brothers "resto-mod" the Pantera, in his memory. Sounds like a noble endeavor to me.
Has anyone dropped in to Spring Green Wisconsin to check this thing out? I'm about 2 hours from Spring Green -- I wonder if they would let me check out the Pantera?
Anyone have any experience with being able to get in there? I'll give them a ring soon and see what the deal is. I'll try to take some photos of the modified Pantera if it is still there. I'll get them on line here if I can get some good shots.
Mark
Anyone have any experience with being able to get in there? I'll give them a ring soon and see what the deal is. I'll try to take some photos of the modified Pantera if it is still there. I'll get them on line here if I can get some good shots.
Mark
quote:Originally posted by David_Nunn:
The Ring Brothers Pantera belongs to the Widow of a man who's dream was to "resto-mod" his Pantera. He died before he had a chance to see his dream become a reality, so his Wife decided she would have Ring Brothers "resto-mod" the Pantera, in his memory. Sounds like a noble endeavor to me.
I would have saved the money and with it bought a beach house in Malibu...and saved the Pantera.
Must be something in the water... there's another build of a sort-of-Mustang featured in HRM this month that is essentially a 7/8-scale '69- Smokey Yunick-style, with a Ford GT engine/trans mid-mounted. For (estimated) hundreds of thousands of dollars, they built what they say is a Mustang version of a GT-40 but which looks like a Pantera with a 'Goose decklid and a Mustang nose. Oh, and the obligatory giant wheels, tires & brakes. It runs but whether it handles, no one's saying.
Saw that. Difficult to know what to call it. It essentially was a front totaled Ford GT.
There's been a bunch of discussion on the mortality rate of those cars at around 40%.
The ghost of George Barris is haunting us.
There's been a bunch of discussion on the mortality rate of those cars at around 40%.
The ghost of George Barris is haunting us.
quote:Originally posted by Cowboy from Hell:quote:
Originally posted by Denis C:
... Detomaso cars had only 2 few exceptions that I know of: Dick R's Chevy powered Mangusta and the 6cyl Pantera.
The early Guaras were equipped with BMW V8s, I'm not sure how many were equipped with Bimmer power. DeTomaso switched to the 4.6 DOHC Ford later on.
Thank-you George. As you say, there were quite a number of Guaras' build with the BMW 4.0L V-8. ... Changed to the DeTomaso homologated Ford Cobra DOHC 4.6L V-8.
I would also add the DeTomaso Bigua, later to become the Qvale Mangusta also had a DeTomaso homologated Ford 4.6 DOHC Cobra engine.
Finally, my last dig at my pet peeve. We only have to look no further than ourselves to see just how not fully informed we are of the DeTomaso marque.
Returning to what this post is about. I find the modifications very interesting - particularly the front end. I would very much like to see the final product. It may very well look superficially Pantera GT5ish.
Bohdan G.
The front end of the car isn't my favorite. Someone must be concerned about cooling. The headlight thing has been done on many Panteras but I haven't really been impressed with any of them, including this one. There's just something about the Pantera that insists on pop-up headlights, and you don't need the light bar to do this.
I don't mind what they did to the rear rocker area at all- very nice.
I don't mind what they did to the rear rocker area at all- very nice.
I think that hasn't deviated much from the Pantera theme at all. Just the colour, the last thing the world needs ins another yellow Pantera!