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Project Pain(t) begins

noquarternoquarterMember
Sunday I started dismantling the Pantera for this winter's paint job. Those that read my rendition of Le Mans Classic know that I hadn't planned to paint the Pantera, I didn't want to. I can never again lean over the fender without fender protection, and I can no longer enjoy a lunch on a ferry with the Pantera squeezed in between other cars and fat tourists. I'll worry about the paint job! Bummer. I'm a bit like my wife on this point. She likes a car with dents, so she doesn't worry about getting a dent.

OK, I exaggerate, but you must admit I have a point. I had the perfect no worries Pantera: all things mechanical worked, paint was scratched, cracked and still shiny when going by fast...

No more. New paint job. Plan is to disassemble and grind off all the paint. I could paint it myself, I've done that 5-6 times before, but right now I have nowhere to do it, and I've in latter years made friends with a pro painter who will paint it for not a lot of money. And of course he can do a better job than me. He said he would only do it if I removed all paint, he refused to paint on top of the miserably and thick American thermoplastic paint it has now.

So all paint has to come off. This will reveal it all. Rust? Dents? Major body work? Eeker Only time will tell.

So what color? As can be seen in the picture it was yellow at birth. Well right now I haven't found a color I like more than the one it has. There are many reds nuances out there, not all pretty, some look like tomato soup past its prime. And some look like a F-car wannabe (which is quite difficult to be when Ferrari changes its nuance according to their sponsor's wishes, like Marlboro). Some people want desperately to have a color nobody else has. Well I want what I want Wink My red is quite dark, like there's a little blood in the paint. Reminds me of the blood, sweat and tears shed over most Panteras... I like it, and as I said, right now it looks like I'll end up with the same color.

Taking apart so far, gone pretty well, nothing major broken. I bent a window bright trim piece, spent an hour getting it back into shape. And the nice people who assembled it before me has made my job easier by only installing half the fasteners to save a few minutes.

The painter has a time slot for it in November. I don't know if I'm in a hurry. If I just find a perfect body underneath the paint, I have plenty of time, if I don't I'm in a hurry.

Soon the mufflers will come off. Hhmm, maybe I should just try to start it w/o mufflers? I've got time to try that Sunday morning I believe...

Updates will come at random intervals.

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chriswilsonchriswilsonMember
good luck. fun and scary at the same time.
my little panel and paint job turned into a full scale nuts and bolts restoration. only its second since i have owned her in 15, no wait 17 years.
enjoy the process.
I secretly hope you find the perfect body under the paint and no nasty hidden secrets. unless its a bullet hole and you have elvis's car.

cheers
cj NZ
noquarternoquarterMember
Finished disassembling. That means no mufflers, had to just start it. Sounded like dragraces I attended many years ago.

Spotted some damage today. Right door closing mechanism, the one with three bolts at the back of the door, on the right side there were washers under the bolts. Why? Because the holes have been ripped too big. I guess this either means that the car has had an accident on the right side, or the door has been pried open with a crow bar. Door skin under coating is different to the left side, and the left side has original yellow paint. So my guess is a new door skin. I'll know more when I get the paint off. It's like gold mining, except you never find anything good, only bad surprises.

So now I'm ready to grind off the paint. Don't really have the energy right now, but I thought I'd do a small area to see how long it takes. The first square feet were OK, then it took forever. Have to have new sandpaper discs, they wear out fast, going to the store tomorrow to get all they have.

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garth66garth66"When speed is the only thing that counts"
quote:
Those that read my rendition of Le Mans Classic know that I hadn't planned to paint the Pantera, I didn't want to. I can never again lean over the fender without fender protection, and I can no longer enjoy a lunch on a ferry with the Pantera squeezed in between other cars and fat tourists. I'll worry about the paint job! Bummer. I'm a bit like my wife on this point. She likes a car with dents, so she doesn't worry about getting a dent.

I've had the same dilemma with my car. Cracks, crazing, and dents from age and use; I'd like it to look nicer up close, but the moment its repainted I'll worry about every little nick or scratch. Keep us posted on your progress Mikael.
rbarkley671rbarkley671Member
Have fun grinding! A word of caution though. It is my understanding that the origional paint had lots of lead in it. If there is original paint under the repaint take precautions by using a good resperator and doing it outdoors (or your garage will be contaminated like mine). Also, ZONKEY (#1549) had only a little damage but there was hardly a straight panel on the car. All had been straightened by the factory paint job.
noquarternoquarterMember
I've started to get serious now. Plan to do the front third this weekend. Went to the shop to get the material. Some hours of work. Fortunately we had guests Saturday late afternoon so I had to stop.

quote:
there was hardly a straight panel on the car. All had been straightened by the factory paint job.


I believe you're right. No major dents found yet, but apart for the top of the fenders, there's filler everywhere.

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noquarternoquarterMember
My guess would be stretch holes, seen it before on the wife's Stratus on the panels. It's just that they're so round...?

The rust area above looks stretched also, metal around the holes is thick, not rust thin. I've found 5-6 places where they seemed to run out of metal, my trusted welder will add some.

Rocker panel is like new, and one of the straightest panels on the car.
jag13catjag13catMember
I, too, have been following your progress since I am about to embark on a complete restoration.
My vehicle is completely disassembled with only the windshield and back glass remaining.
I am planning to have my vehicle media blasted-probably baking soda.
Just curious since you are sanding should I be concerned with media blasting.
noquarternoquarterMember
My view: Blasting for me means shipping it out, I don't want to do that if can be avoided. Careless blasters can put dents in the middle of larger areas.

Yes, grinding does scratch the metal, and you have to careful at corners and bends. And move around, don't overheat.

About the heavy primer needed, well if you think that your metal on a Pantera can otherwise just be primed and painted, that's in very few places the metal is straight enough. I always cover the entire car in what we call spray-filler, don't know the translation. All that said I will go over the whole car with less coarse paper, to remove the worst imperfections.
A andriykoMember
As far as Paint stripping is concerned ...

Mark Charlton put me onto a GREAT, GERMAN tool.

It is called MBX. It is available from the US as well.

For EUROPE follow this link:

http://www.monti.de/de/automotive

For US and Canada follow this link:

http://www.mbxit.com/

What I particularly like about the tool is it does not "grind away" or heat the metal when removing the paint - Although it still generaltes paint dust. (but even for the dust they have a dust attachmetn). Have a look at the videos !!

One of my best tools.

HTH

BG
Last edited by andriyko
noquarternoquarterMember
I was a bit ahead of schedule starting this weekend. But doing the back of the rear deck lid took almost all day, not finished yet. So many angles.

First angle grinder died today, bearing shot. Three left, but two of them heavy and need to push the button all the time. Will probably shop for a new one Sunday.

Still hope to finish the big areas Sunday, so I can start cleaning the garage. If not, it'll be an evening next week I get to that.
noquarternoquarterMember
Bought a new Bosch grinder (the broken one was an AEG). Now I have two Bosch. Bosch is an amazing brand. I don't think I've ever had a Bosch product fail on me. I've had one grinder where the carbon thingys wore out, and my current Bosch drill is a bit weak after I dropped it in the salt water when working on my boat. Don't think Bosch can be blamed for that. My house has two electric garage door openers. The one which was already installed when we bought the house is a Bosch, the other brand has been repaired twice.

When it seems like all other brands deliberately reduce quality to make a short term profit, it's great that a few brands exist for those who don't mind paying a bit more and get something of quality.

So why am I doing this advertising for Bosch? Well, as soon as I stop writing, I have to go out and get to work again...
Last edited by noquarter
noquarternoquarterMember
Finally, it's bare metal everywhere where the paint is visible. The inner part of the two lids were a pain...

I'm finished grinding, at least until the painter comes by next week, he may put me to work again. Started to get the red dust out of the garage, wonder if I ever will get the red tint out of my carpets...

Next step is for me to start welding, filling the areas where they hadn't enough metal. Plus aligning a bit, in some places it can be better, will reduce the need for filler.

And a few things that need fixing now that I can do it without the risk of scratching the paint.

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noquarternoquarterMember
I took pictures of all the cracks before grinding, and I'll add some metal there. Usual places, c-pillars into rear quarter panels, rear lamps, bottom of a-pillars. Plus some strange ones that were just due to inferior/mismatched fillers. A few cracks won't hurt though, just shows the torque Wink

And unless somebody tells me the holes in my front fender (pictured earlier) are from a celebrity with more star quality than self control, I'll fill those holes with metal.

Still can't decide the color. This weekend I've moved from red to yellow to blue metallic... Or maybe just a clear coat, it would be a look like no other car in the world for sure...
noquarternoquarterMember
Well, I've now decided on a color. And I'm not going to tell which. I will say that it's a color I'm sure no Pantera has ever been painted before (so, not original). And it's a color many will hate, few will like, even fewer will be indifferent to it. Do I do it to be different? Not really, it's just the most beautiful color in the world, on a car or otherwise...

Unless I change my mind...

Besides that, not much progress, waiting for the painter to have time to come by, fixing a bit of Longchamp and Jeeps. This weekend I'll start the metalwork.
noquarternoquarterMember
I've started on the metal work. Rust in one place only, but a lot of places with holes and just a general lack of metal, filling that in.

On the topic of panel gaps, I don't think you can expect a lot from a hand built 72 car. When I contemplated painting on that day at Le Mans Classic, I looked thoroughly at my panel gaps and compared to the other Panteras there. It was actually quite good, and a lot better than my previous Pantera. One area annoyed me though, the top of the door at the a-pillar. Here's a picture of the left side, looks pretty OK

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noquarternoquarterMember
No more rust holes. Welded all the machine gun holes as well. Only need to fix the right door, some alignment issues that require some metal bending etc.

The painter was here. He said, do this, do that. So still some work to do. He didn't like my color choice, he wasn't even sure that color could be had in today's water borne paint. We'll see...

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noquarternoquarterMember
I'm a bit puzzled why some think that an original color is important. 90% of our cars are modified, bigger wheels, more power etc. Why pick an original color? You're never going to fool anyone into thinking it's an original car anyway. Those that could be fooled wouldn't know what an original color was anyway. And the Pantera orig colors are just a tiny subset of the colors out there.

My orig Camaro is original Ermine White. I hate white, but for that car there was no other choice of course. For my Pantera there's thousands of possibilities. Fear the worst!
Eeker
noquarternoquarterMember
Started going over the body to get the details right. Going over every curve and imperfection, I feel now I know that Pantera body better than a teenage boy knows the body of his first girlfriend Razzer

Not much has happened this week. I've spent some hours aligning the right door better, welding the elongated holes etc. That actually made the alignment more difficult, so maybe there was a reason for the elongated holes? Still, it's compensating a problem instead of correcting it, that won't do!

Found a decent fit now. Now I need to take the door off, so I can grind of the last bits. Then it has to go on again, because there's no way the painter can get the straightening correct without the door in place to aim at. And after that it has to come off again when he paints it. And then, what I fear most, I have to put it on when freshly painted, without destroying the paint Eeker

As can be seen I don't have too much space either

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noquarternoquarterMember
Doors have now been off, and I've sanded off all the paint I couldn't really get to when they were installed. I also did the crawl-on-the-floor-and-face-upwards part of the paint removal. That means that I'm finished removing paint!
party

I've now done that job on three cars, hope I never have to do it again, with my tools, not much room and a day job, it's hard work.

So, the doors were off, and normally I'd leave them off for the painter to paint. But since they don't have much tolerance when aligning and especially the right door jamb area needs some filling, I put them back on and spent two hours aligning them. Only then will the painter have a chance to fill and straighten the car so the gaps won't be too crude. And after that he can remove the doors again.
(in both doors the wiring to the red warning lights in the back of the door is way too long, is that the case on all Panteras, or was this car originally a 4 door? Wink)

So all done? Not at all. Sanding, welding and straightening of metal is done.

Today I'll remove the sealer on the underside of the deck lids, and apply new. Will also start to remove all the paint dust that's everywhere. Fun times...
C coreypriceMember
Mikael,

Did someone add the brace? Looks like it to me but I'm new to this stuff...

Looks like you've done a lot of work. I'm going to be doing the same really soon- probably in the spring and removing all of the exterior primer back to bare metal. Going to use some epoxy primer and stick with the same brand of paint materials all the way through. I'm so excited that I've already bought a cheap spray gun for primer.
Last edited by George P
noquarternoquarterMember
Spent some time removing red paint from trim parts and rubber gaskets.

Those that are easily offended, don't read on. My painter, never one to shy away from generalizing against a whole continent, says that in an American paint shop, the two most important people are:
    The one masking all the items that should have been removed
    The one buffing out all the imperfections after the paint is applied
noquarternoquarterMember
I know there are a lot of good mirror solutions out there, but I like my more or less useless ones. I decided to make them less useless by moving them so they're visible through the front triangle instead of the main side window (where 1/3 was behind the divider). (Chrome trim only installed for alignment)

Old holes to the right, welded shut now, no going back.

Bonus question, which track is shown in white?

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noquarternoquarterMember
quote:
You did leave us hanging with the paint color though...


Yes. And my priorities are still that special color. And if that's not feasible, I'm going for the old red or a bright yellow. The special color is so special that my painter doesn't like it, and he's not sure it can be done with modern water borne paints. A Pantera is an extreme car, it can bear an extreme color. And as opposed to some Lamborghini colors, this is an extreme(ly) beautiful color, not just an extreme(ly) rare and bright color, IMHO of course
noquarternoquarterMember
Painted all the black trim parts. Had to do a bit of filling, but not much. If you use a cheapo high gloss spray can, it'll end up in the semi-gloss black that I was after. Parts are high gloss when paint is still curing, see picture, when cured, they'd be semi-gloss. If you want proper hi-gloss, you need a proper paint gun and preferably some clear coat. But these parts were newer hi-gloss AFAIK

Also decided that some in-cabin parts that are normally black will be body color, like a modern car. If I regret it, it's easy to spray them black at a later date.

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noquarternoquarterMember
Been away a few days, crummy Danish damp autumn weather. I had put plastic over the car to avoid drips of water. But the dampness in the air condensed under the plastic, so I had several areas of fresh rust. So I knew I had to move it to the heated brick and mortar garage that normally contains my daily driver Longchamp. Had to wait for 15 minutes w/o rain, and then the wife, son and I pushed the Pantera to a better environment (but so small and dark fixing things in there is not easy).

Before doing that, I had the seats out. Primarily because getting them in and out normally scratches something, so now was a good time. The passenger seat was out, so I could get to the p-brake, the ratchet mechanism needed some TLC. The driver's seat was out for the maybe 10th time in my quest for a good driving position. I hate those seats, they're too thick, so finding room for me and my tall frame has involved several modification to the seats. This time I raised the front mounting to get leg support for my right leg. Also moved the accelerator yet another cm forward. And since my last seat modification moved my butt backwards (to get room for my right leg) I had gotten too far away from the clutch, so moved that closer to me.
And of course vacuumed tons of red paint from the carpet while seats were out.

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J jb1490Member
quote:
How were you able to get enough room to pull the gasket from behind the dash?

Do the top and sides. The bottom will follow. If you are not going to reuse the gasket, just cut it.

quote:
When replacing, do you plan to put the trim in the gasket before installing?

The trim, gasket, and windshield HAVE to be installed as an "assembly". Put the gasket on the glass, install the trim, and install the "assembly".

John
noquarternoquarterMember
A quiet evening in the Jyllinge/Denmark DeTomaso home. Laying in bed, only me awake in the house. Staring at the dark ceiling. Can't sleep. Thoughts are running on:
"My mystery color will be great. Maybe. The painter didn't get back to me with a go/no-go on it before he went on vacation. Can he do it? How much more will it cost? Or maybe I should just do the red I had? It looks good. And good with chrome trim. But there are many of them. Too many? Many because it looks good in red. People can think it's a F-car. Or even worse, they can think I want them to think it's an F-car. Aaarrgghh! Now I'll never get to sleep. But what do I care what people think? I don't. Unless I want to sell it. Which I don't. Not now. Not ever? Had my Camaro for 25 years, still have it... Originally the Pantera was yellow. Yellow is a great color, but better with black trim, like Dave2811's beautiful car. Yellow and chrome too much? There's no such thing as too much for supercars. Well many Lambo colors are ugly. But back to the Pantera. I like blue metallic a lot. Same color as the Longchamp would make a great couple. But the stylish gentleman like dusty blue look is not for the Pantera? How about the Dark Blue met on the Corvette in the newest Summit catalog? Is that photoshop or is it that bright and deep? And looking at the Pantera in the nude (no paint, just metal), silver looks good as well. Can't make up my mind. What do I know for sure? I don't like green. I don't like black. I don't like white. I hope the mystery color will work out. Then again, I might never be able to sell it. Hhhmmm... That's good! Mystery color it is. Zzz"

As you can see I've more time on my hands now. It's ready for paint, painter is on vacation. Might pop into the living room and see what the wife is doing with her life...
noquarternoquarterMember
Bummer
My painter says that my mystery color can't be made. So I have to rethink.

What I was looking for was a glow in the dark highlight neon yellow. I painted it on a Camaro in the 90s, it was copied off a bicycle that was highlight yellow, like I think some firetrucks are in the US? What you do is that you paint the car white, and then apply a few layers of very yellow, but also see-through, paint, that gives the effect. My Camaro in sunshine was something else, often it was pictured in magazines when at car shows, just because of the paint. And the pictures didn't do it justice, a photograph could not capture the effect on the human eye. The effect was such that when it was parked on the street beneath my 1st floor apartment, the ceiling in my apartment would be slightly yellow. And on a sunny morning with dew on the hood, you almost couldn't see anything.

But…that was back in the days before water borne paint. I'm told this see-through yellow can't be made water borne, and the cars you see today with something neon yellow, that's film attached to it. So "back to square one"

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C charliemccallMember
Hmmm. So nuclear, glow-in-the-dark yellow can't be painted today? Too bad.

You aren't alone. I had my car repainted 2 years ago and went through the same process. I seriously considered the burgundy color from the last page, a-la Johnny Woods (or Colin Bradshaw, whose GT5-S came from the factory with that color). You can drive yourself crazy with the options, so I took the easy way out and repainted mine the same color as it was before I started...
noquarternoquarterMember
Dave, your car is beautiful, no doubt. The problem as I see it with yellows and reds, they can't be judged by pictures, and the wrong shade of yellow looks faded and the wrong shade of red looks like tomato soup past its prime.

Kristian, you are MR TURQUIOSE by now. Too difficult to spell for me, RED is easier.

Still have a few trick paints on my mind, but the painter seems to shoot them down one by one, and maybe there's a good reason why nobody has put them on a private car before. I'm adding a picture of my red car, just to remember it, doesn't look half bad... Big Grin

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jtpanterajtpanteraMember
That is an impressive paint job. Although, I am not refering to the color. Rather, how they sharpened all the lines of the car. The lines are very straight and visible reflecting the panel angles very well. Most non-pantera shops miss that whole effect and tend to soften them with their poor sanding technique. Rumor had it at one time that many cars left the factory with "crisper" lines than others as the kersite dies used to stamp the panels lost their edge over time. Whether true or not, crisp lines are a dead giveaway to a quality restoration. And yours are sharp!
noquarternoquarterMember
Just wondering...
Tire rack has a web page where you can see all their rims on your car. How about color? Has anybody produced a Pantera photoshop something where I can see all colors on a Pantera? Ideally with known car colors to choose from, but otherwise just a palette? To help me decide?

BTW, my Pantera has not been moved to the painter yet. We haven't found a day with no rain and dry roads for 6 weeks. Makes me wonder if I live in the right country...
garth66garth66"When speed is the only thing that counts"
quote:
How about color? Has anybody produced a Pantera photoshop something where I can see all colors on a Pantera? Ideally with known car colors to choose from, but otherwise just a palette? To help me decide?

I put something like that on my website, but I don't have a color palette for users to mix their own colors.
http://www.banzairunnerpantera.com/color_selector.htm
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