Looking for a set. What do you have? The vendors are not in good shape on these. Odd because my money says almost every car out there that's being used needs them. Or they've all been done?
Replies sorted oldest to newest
Why not just have your originals modified? It requires some fabrication but it's not too difficult. Just have the hoops on the inboard side replaced with teflon lined rod ends. Because the rod ends are threaded, they allow for camber adjustment. An added benefit is, when you shim the lower control arm mounts, for toe adjustment, you can adjust the upper control arms, for toe, at the same time.
Yes, I have thought a lot about modification, but haven't come up with an idea or the materials to do it. Just extending the hoops about 1/8" would do it, then I could make the final adjustments with shims. Still easier said than done.
Not available? I was at Larry Stock's shop in Carson City, NV last week. He showed me at least 50 examples his machinist had finished up. These are the fully tubular type a-arm that use a 5/8" SAE fine thread heim-joint and jam nut to make rear camber adjustments. But I suggest you first examine your car's rear suspension to find out what changed that requires more adjustment than the stock shims at the lower rear a-arm mounts can compensate.
If its the usual slow collapse of the Pantera's rear chassis over time, know that is correctable if you use the type of adjustable upper rear brace-bar that has long ends to jam solidly some distance into the fender bracket weldments. This type is the black steel bar once marketed by Hall Pantera (and others today; Larry makes those, too). It's design forces all cornering loads to be absorbed by the welded upper rear shock mount, with the stock (flimsey) bracket and slotted mount holes being relegated to simple bar retainers rather than cornering load points.
Adding a gradual amount of preload to that type of brace-bar allows an owner to 'tease' the rear suspension back to stock alignment parameters. Then adjustable upper rear a-arms can be used to trim the rear wheel camber and the stock lower shims used for setting rear toe-in, all for better handling. One should NOT add all the preload at once or ripples can show up in the rear quarter panels. Don't be impatient! Aluminum adjustable upper brace-bars with short ends overstress the thin mounting tabs if used to carry loads, causing the adjustments to slide back & forth in the stock slotted holes so are far less effective.
NOT restoring stock chassis alignment first means the rear suspension will need more and more adjustment over time, especially when oversized rear tires made of stickier than OEM rubber are used, and/or when the car is driven in the manner envisioned by designer Dallara. Adding more and more rear camber adjustment pushes the rear tires outboard each time they're straightened up, until the rear fender lips contact the big tires and forces those lips to be pounded under (or flared) the same as max-oversized front tires that contact the front fender lips (while turning). There are illustrated details of this mod' in the POCA Archives. The parts are not expensive.
Which "Larry" are you referring to? Larry Stock? Obviously, there are spacers that go between the bushings and the mounts but they aren't installed yet. I don't believe it's a problem if one of the mounts isn't centered, as long as the upper ball joint is in the correct location. Why not just use Teflon lined rod ends?
Hu? The picture shows the bushings don't fit tight between the mounts. This is elementary. Why not just make them fit without me having to run around looking for parts or re-engineer the darn things. For the cost, and all the fancy machining capability there's no excuse for it. One size fits all 71-74. And It makes no difference that the nuts aren't installed, no spacers were provided or offered either.
Yes, that Larry who is a good guy, but I expected a perfect fit, just like originals. Is that asking too much?
Larry either forgot to supply the spacers or neglected to tell you, you need to have spacers made. There's nothing wrong with spacers that fit correctly. It's a bit tough with our suspension mounts because they aren't 100% consistent in width or location. If you want them to fit like originals, without spacers, the vendor would need to have custom ends made, which would probably triple the price, or more. Furthermore, they still wouldn't fit every Pantera perfectly, for the same reason the OEM control arms and bushings don't always slip into place.
What you want is not terribly complicated to fabricate but you will have to pay someone to make them for you. It would probably be cheaper and easier to have them made from scratch as opposed to modifying yours.
What kind of shock absorbers do you have? Do they use spacers in the mounts?
This rear suspension was built by Chandler Chassis Concepts. The lower upright pivot is an interesting design. Spacers everywhere though. I count 14 !!! :-)
Although they are all the same 71-74 Pantera's there are differences chassis to chassis. Most folks who 'need' these may be looking for that adjustability in caster, camber and toe that the spacers would offer. As David has stated the vendors usually adapt off the shelf parts to Pantera application to keep pricing acceptable to the masses and so they can spread their design cost an still make a buck. One off solutions are available if you bring your check book.
Larry Stock must have changed his design as the adjustable a-arms I have are adjustable on the outboard side using a heim (rod end) instead of the ball joint. Are those bushed ends? Are they double sleeved to be adjustable on the car without removal?
I bought some from Dennis a year or so ago, and no excuses, they fit like a glove. Priced right too. Unfortunately, very difficult to get them from PPC now. In addition, I've swapped stock arms from car to car, no problem. To say they can't be reproduced with accuracy is just not what I've experienced.
In any case, this isn't the first time that poor communication has soured a customer. Although I appreciate your explanations, it would have been better to have gotten them from the Vendor. I won't be re-ordering them that's for sure.