They look great, but now I'm confused. Wilkinson axles run around $395 per pair including nuts.
Then we have the Mark Williams option at twice the price. but what is the difference. Do they both take standard wheel bearings and spacer tube?
Don't mind spending a bit extra if the quality is better but need an explanation if available.
quote:Do they both take standard wheel bearings and spacer tube?
Yes.
quote:Don't mind spending a bit extra if the quality is better but need an explanation if available.
MW is a long time, excellent quality axle specialist. Established good name and good quality.
Wilkinson is a long time De Tomaso importer/supplier/restorer. His offering is from a recent production, done in about 1200 pieces, probably offshore forgings and machining. Would he risk his reputation on low-grade items?
Without a side-by-side testing, saying one is better than the other is not possible.
If the forging is well done, the metal quality is controlled and the CNC machine is set-up properly, it really doesn't matter (quality wise) where something is made nowadays.
I installed the Wilkinson axles this past winter. I've put about 3000 miles on them by now and have had no issues.
Larry
I believe the Mark Williams stub axles are machined to accept either stock 12mm x 1.5 Pantera wheel studs or stronger 1/2-20 studs. They are also available gun drilled.
Well what an interesting couple of days. As previously noted, the rear drivers wheel was loose so I pulled it apart for a look. Outer wheel bearing had spun on the axle and created a groove, 19mm wide and 12 thou deep.
Okay, so I need a new set of axles, but they are on the other side of the World and my new car is right here wanting to be driven.
Be creative I say to myself. Surf the Web, ah "Loctite Quick Metal" designed to fill voids in shafts and keyways. Off to the local bearing store who highly recomended the product, along with the appropriate spray primer.
Home I go, instructions say to sandblast the component to allow better keying. No worries, into the cabinet then mix up the product and apply. It's Winter here and pretty cold at 17 deg C, so into the wife's oven at 40 deg C for an hour or two. Package said machinable at 6 hours, but I forgot it and went to bed. Sure, it was still in the hot oven when I got up for breakfast.
Okay, so I need a new set of axles, but they are on the other side of the World and my new car is right here wanting to be driven.
Be creative I say to myself. Surf the Web, ah "Loctite Quick Metal" designed to fill voids in shafts and keyways. Off to the local bearing store who highly recomended the product, along with the appropriate spray primer.
Home I go, instructions say to sandblast the component to allow better keying. No worries, into the cabinet then mix up the product and apply. It's Winter here and pretty cold at 17 deg C, so into the wife's oven at 40 deg C for an hour or two. Package said machinable at 6 hours, but I forgot it and went to bed. Sure, it was still in the hot oven when I got up for breakfast.
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Onto the lathe and the product machined beautifully. Shaft size was 40.04mm but I took the quick metal down to 40.02mm as I didn't want it to be crushed too much by the bearing.
Here's images of the damaged shaft and the quick metal after machining.
Here's images of the damaged shaft and the quick metal after machining.
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Shaft damage
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The stuff looks pretty rough, but it's actually amazing. The darker parts are bits of Kevlar which are right through it.
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So after machining it all down, I went through the standard assembly process for new wheel bearings. It only took 1.5 hours to put it all back together and have it sitting on all four paws.
Result: Zero movement of the wheel when rocked vertically and lateraly. Excellent product.
I spoke to a local Ferrari mechanic later in the day who had repaired a shaft on his motor bike with it nearly four years ago and it was still going strong. Perfect for damaged keyways on cranks etc.
Result: Zero movement of the wheel when rocked vertically and lateraly. Excellent product.
I spoke to a local Ferrari mechanic later in the day who had repaired a shaft on his motor bike with it nearly four years ago and it was still going strong. Perfect for damaged keyways on cranks etc.
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I'll conduct weekly checks and see how it fares with road use, but on first drive impressions, it seems like I'm out of the woodpile, and have escaped the fire for the time being. Now I can get onto sourcing the new components and do it all again. At least I've had some practice now.
By the way, that bloody nut is tight!!!
I had to make the tool to do up the ring nut on the back of the hub as there is no local source for such a thing.
To do it up, I fitted the hub to the lower control arm and also fitted the five wheel nuts to protect the studs.
Then I let the hub lay outwards so that the tips of the wheel nuts rested on the floor, or in my case, the deck of the four post hoist. I had to jack the car up a little to ensure that all five wheel nuts were contacting the deck of the hoist. Then I grabbed a five foot length of steel pipe (actually an old torsion bar) and slipped it between the wheel nuts and allowed the other end to contact the leg of the hoist. My tension wrench is a 1/2" drive that goes to 300 ft/lbs, and with the bar against the studs stopping the hub from turning, it was tough, but straight forward to get some serious bloody tension onto that nut. Having the hub lay over so that the wheel nuts contacted the hoist deck also made it very comfortable to work on the tensioning as everything was captive and laying flat.
As it's 1.25am here, I'll post a pic of my home made nut tool tomorrow. Best sneak into the cot now and try not to wake the Mrs!
By the way, that bloody nut is tight!!!
I had to make the tool to do up the ring nut on the back of the hub as there is no local source for such a thing.
To do it up, I fitted the hub to the lower control arm and also fitted the five wheel nuts to protect the studs.
Then I let the hub lay outwards so that the tips of the wheel nuts rested on the floor, or in my case, the deck of the four post hoist. I had to jack the car up a little to ensure that all five wheel nuts were contacting the deck of the hoist. Then I grabbed a five foot length of steel pipe (actually an old torsion bar) and slipped it between the wheel nuts and allowed the other end to contact the leg of the hoist. My tension wrench is a 1/2" drive that goes to 300 ft/lbs, and with the bar against the studs stopping the hub from turning, it was tough, but straight forward to get some serious bloody tension onto that nut. Having the hub lay over so that the wheel nuts contacted the hoist deck also made it very comfortable to work on the tensioning as everything was captive and laying flat.
As it's 1.25am here, I'll post a pic of my home made nut tool tomorrow. Best sneak into the cot now and try not to wake the Mrs!
It looks like you have wear at the inner bearing also.
I Googled info on the product and it will be interesting to see how long it will last in your application. One would think the force applied to it would be incredible. Did you wrap something around it during the curing process?
Mike
Mike
quote:Originally posted by forestg:
It looks like you have wear at the inner bearing also.
Even though it looks that way, the measurements were perfect to the centre of the shaft. Only the bottom was worn (or the outer).
When you put it on Mike, it gets real sticky so I wrapped it in clingwrap and then was able to squeeze it on much better and then used a little roller to push it in really firm. Then off with the cling wrap and into the oven.
Mike, seems it's called a different name over there.
Loctite ® Fixmaster ® Metal Magic Steel
It's a steel epoxy in stick form
Loctite ® Fixmaster ® Metal Magic Steel
It's a steel epoxy in stick form
I've repaired quite a few stub axles and a few others have, as well. Unless that epoxy product is something very new, I'd be surprised if it lasts thru the warm up drive. The ball bearing manufacturers specify a 0.0005" press fit to keep the soft axles from being indented by the much harder bearing races. As Larry said, the loads are truely incredible and there's heating involved in controlling 300 horsepower going tyhru a drive system. When I weld up damaged axles, I use Stellite C- a nickel/cobalt rod thats used for hard-facing. It can't be single-pointed on a lathe; it musth be ground to size with a tool-post grinder. Other owners reweld the mild steel axles, turn them slightly undersized and have the axle hard-chrome plated, then finish ground. Both methods work.
The two big points: use METAL- as tough and as hard as you can find, and finish the axle to a 'medium' press-fit. You cannot estimate the right diameter either- you need a 4-decimal micrometer and you need to take the measurement at room temperature as steel grows enough with heat to foul up the measurements. Finally, stock '71-up factory axles WILL break in heavy use with big tires, always at the point where the axle flange transitions to the bearing surface. Aftermarket axles and the 'offshore' replacements now being sold are much stronger in this area.
The two big points: use METAL- as tough and as hard as you can find, and finish the axle to a 'medium' press-fit. You cannot estimate the right diameter either- you need a 4-decimal micrometer and you need to take the measurement at room temperature as steel grows enough with heat to foul up the measurements. Finally, stock '71-up factory axles WILL break in heavy use with big tires, always at the point where the axle flange transitions to the bearing surface. Aftermarket axles and the 'offshore' replacements now being sold are much stronger in this area.
Bosswrench, do you think that the new crop of Wilkinson axles would be okay for my future use considering the wide wheels I'm running?
The temp fix was just that, a temp fix. Nothing worse than getting a new car and then not being able to drive it for weeks whilst awaiting parts or researching parts. Hopefully it holds for a few miles, at least to get me through the roadworthy checks and Ozzie registration.
The temp fix was just that, a temp fix. Nothing worse than getting a new car and then not being able to drive it for weeks whilst awaiting parts or researching parts. Hopefully it holds for a few miles, at least to get me through the roadworthy checks and Ozzie registration.
Admittedly the true GT5 cars had a stepped axle with larger outer bearing, but lots of people are running wide wheels on GP4 and GT5 conversions. You should be fine with new aftermarket axles, what probably happened is someone replaced the wheel bearings with an already own axle. Also be sure to replace the chamfered outer thrust washer as that can cause premature failure on an otherwise new axle and bearings too.
Julian
Julian
quote:Originally posted by Bosswrench:
Note also that the problem is NOT with the bearings: the stock axles were fabricated 0.0005" undersized at the factory for some odd reason, which took away the required press-fit. Then with corenering loads, 300+ bhp and frictional heat, the soft axles began fretting in the extremely hard bearing races, wearing away the axles. Wilkinson's current replacement axles restores the needed press-fit and are made of better steel (EN-36) than OEM, fixing both problems.
Can I ask for some clarification on an issue here.
An owner in Oz recently purchased a WIlkinson axle for his failed rear LHS. When delivered it measures 39.99mm
When I removed my axle to temporarily repair the damage, it measured 40.04mm
0.05mm is quite a lot and it has me concerned. The Oz owner does not now need the new Wilkinson axle and I can buy it from him and have it in a day or two, but why would a brand new axle from Wilkinson be slightly smaller in the shaft size that the one already in my car.
If the bearing is a true 40.00mm inner, then it will not need to be press fitted to slide onto a 39.99mm shaft.
I need to rekindle this thread as I currently have the rear axles out of the car.
My temporary repair looks perfect after 300 miles and considering that I machined it to 40.04mm and it's endured a press fit of the new bearings, I'm actually very suprised that it held up as well as it did.
I've read over and over this thread and many others pertaining to the rear axles but I'm still in a quandary.
My axles appear to be original. They are hollow axles with the centre bore being approximately 19.5mm and on the very tip of the threaded end are stamped D and S indicating left hand and right hand threaded.
They measure as follows:
D axle (passenger side USA)
- spline end 39.87mm
- centre 39.98mm
- outer end 39.96mm
This indicates that I have some inner wear and less outer wear and that the centre is probably a factory spec as it is under size to the bearing inner.
S axle (drivers side USA)
- spline end 39.95mm
-centre 39.99mm
- outer end is badly worn and down to 39.75mm
Obviously the drivers side outer bearing has damaged the shaft badly, and the inner drivers side is showing slight wear, yet overall the centre measurement tends to indicate that these axles may be original (slightly undersize) factory items as evidenced by the center measurements being in the 39.98 / 39.99 range.
If these are original, then it's certainly time to change them but here lies the root of the quandry.
I'm more than happy to run the Wilkinson axle with the double size outer bearing and shortened centre spacer, but can anyone confirm that these axles are perfectly manufactured to 40.03/40.04mm with no taper to them. I'd like to run a 2 thou interference fit, and given the 335's on the back, I reckon it's prudent to go with the double width outer bearing if you guys think it's a good thing.
Is there any hub modification required to fit the Wilkinson double bearing axles?
My temporary repair looks perfect after 300 miles and considering that I machined it to 40.04mm and it's endured a press fit of the new bearings, I'm actually very suprised that it held up as well as it did.
I've read over and over this thread and many others pertaining to the rear axles but I'm still in a quandary.
My axles appear to be original. They are hollow axles with the centre bore being approximately 19.5mm and on the very tip of the threaded end are stamped D and S indicating left hand and right hand threaded.
They measure as follows:
D axle (passenger side USA)
- spline end 39.87mm
- centre 39.98mm
- outer end 39.96mm
This indicates that I have some inner wear and less outer wear and that the centre is probably a factory spec as it is under size to the bearing inner.
S axle (drivers side USA)
- spline end 39.95mm
-centre 39.99mm
- outer end is badly worn and down to 39.75mm
Obviously the drivers side outer bearing has damaged the shaft badly, and the inner drivers side is showing slight wear, yet overall the centre measurement tends to indicate that these axles may be original (slightly undersize) factory items as evidenced by the center measurements being in the 39.98 / 39.99 range.
If these are original, then it's certainly time to change them but here lies the root of the quandry.
I'm more than happy to run the Wilkinson axle with the double size outer bearing and shortened centre spacer, but can anyone confirm that these axles are perfectly manufactured to 40.03/40.04mm with no taper to them. I'd like to run a 2 thou interference fit, and given the 335's on the back, I reckon it's prudent to go with the double width outer bearing if you guys think it's a good thing.
Is there any hub modification required to fit the Wilkinson double bearing axles?
Really stuck here.
Car is in a million bits, axles are on the bench and I need to order new ones but I haven't been able to get any clarification at all that any of the new crop of axles actually measures the 40.04mm required to give me 2 thou of press clearance on the new axles.
I wrote to Wilkinsons last Friday and still nothing.
Car is in a million bits, axles are on the bench and I need to order new ones but I haven't been able to get any clarification at all that any of the new crop of axles actually measures the 40.04mm required to give me 2 thou of press clearance on the new axles.
I wrote to Wilkinsons last Friday and still nothing.