reconditioning from the ground up... I have questions..lol

You seem like you have things under control….

One suggestion is to convert all of your brake calipers and fittings to AN-3 And then you can use stainless steel, braided lines and the fitting are a lot easier to connect up.

Aristons are rebuildable if yours leak. One source said Aristons were made by Koni and Pat Mical in MA used to buy and rebuild them with adjustable spring perches etc. www.Pat@futureauto.com" target="_blank">www.Pat@futureauto.com

@rocky posted:

You seem like you have control

One suggestion is to convert all of your brake calipers and fittings to AN-3 And then you can use stainless steel, braided lines and the fitting are a lot easier to connect up.

lol.. it does seem like I may have a control issue..  

thanks for the AN-3 suggestion, I'll look into it.

@bosswrench posted:

Aristons are rebuildable if yours leak. One source said Aristons were made by Koni and Pat Mical in MA used to buy and rebuild them with adjustable spring perches etc. www.Pat@futureauto.com" target="_blank">www.Pat@futureauto.com" target="_blank">www.Pat@futureauto.com

The shocks are not leaking, would that indicate I should use as is?

Sure- try it. Don't know how similar the black Aristons are to red Konis that were optional on Euro GTS & GTS/Gr-3s. Original  '71 Konis had adjustable damping if yours were too soft or hard. We used to adjust the front damping at one click and the heavier loaded rears at two clicks. Three clicks would loosen your fillings. Note also the fronts and rear shocks have 1 digit different stamped numbers and the long rubber bumpers go in front while the short ones are for the rears. I believe the main springs were of different strengths, too.

To adjust original red Konis, you had to remove the shocks from the car. Drive a roll pin out and unscrew the shock mounting eye, then completely collapse the shock rod. At the bottom of the rod inside the shock body was a fork that engaged the adjusting damper rings. With the shock mounting eye in place, the rod won't go in far enough to engage the adjustments.

With pliers, rotate the fully collapsed shock rod in either direction until you feel a click. There are 3 positions. Test by moving the shock rod in the body up/down by hand to verify where your shocks are- the damping stiffness for the 3 settings is quite apparent. Koni used to include a 3-pg illustrated brochure with their new shocks, which were guaranteed for life if you kept the receipt. Official Koni-America rebuilders used to be in Kentucky but 50+ years is a LONG time....

Thanks!! I have 2 blue and 2 black.. I’m guessing the coils are collapsed enabling the removal of the retainers?

Sorry- the blue painted ones are likely later model Telecar replacements that are not adjustable, not rebuildable and not made by Koni.

If you can remove the big split-locks without a press, the  springs are either shorter replacements or terminally collapsed. They are also dangerous as loose fitting split locks can fall out while driving, allowing that suspension to suddenly collapse, unless some provision has been made to physically retain them.

Lost split locks are also very hard to replace, as later model Konis are smaller in OD, gas-charged to 150 psi inside, can be run upside-down and use smaller split locks. Good luck-

I might suggest that before you put much time and money into the bits and pieces, you take a serious look at the body. These cars have lots of rust problems that should be dealt with before they can be safely enjoyed. Here’s hoping your car is solid as a rock! How about some pics?

@bosswrench posted:

If you can remove the big split-locks without a press, the  springs are either shorter replacements or terminally collapsed. They are also dangerous as loose fitting split locks can fall out while driving, allowing that suspension to suddenly collapse, unless some provision has been made to physically retain them.

Lost split locks are also very hard to replace, as later model Konis are smaller in OD, gas-charged to 150 psi inside, can be run upside-down and use smaller split locks. Good luck-

Good info! The plan will be to get them to a shop that have the tools to take them apart while I clean and repaint, then have them put back on..

@bosswrench posted:

To adjust original red Konis, you had to remove the shocks from the car. Drive a roll pin out and unscrew the shock mounting eye, then completely collapse the shock rod. At the bottom of the rod inside the shock body was a fork that engaged the adjusting damper rings. With the shock mounting eye in place, the rod won't go in far enough to engage the adjustments.

I not agree with this , only the coils must be remove and you can press the rod far enough inn to adjust the Koni's

Simon

Roland Jäckel from Germany have the Koni rubber bushes .

Simon

@Ed Harbur posted:

I might suggest that before you put much time and money into the bits and pieces, you take a serious look at the body. These cars have lots of rust problems that should be dealt with before they can be safely enjoyed. Here’s hoping your car is solid as a rock! How about some pics?

Hey Ed, great suggestion.. fortunately, it is solid and I'll get some pics to go along with the questions..lol  area under radiator on rt side will need some attention.

@simon posted:

Roland Jäckel from Germany have the Koni rubber bushes .

Simon

Thanks Simon, do you know if those Koni bushings fit the Ariston?

from what I know are Ariston  Koni look al likes and the bushes will fit, but I will check and let you know.

Inside from the Ariston are different from Koni's

Simon

Thanks Simon... After disassembly, I've found that the shock can be adjusted by turning the rod.  It did look like the right side might have been a little lower than the left. There is a roll pin at the top to renew the absorber if necessary?  There are also holes for a spanner wrench to renew seals or perhaps change oil viscosity to adjust stiffness?

For me it looks necessery to replace the rubber bushes, those also has impact on your ride hight

yes remove the roll pin for renew the absorber.

I never has rebuild the shocks myself , but I know into that the past shock rebuilders from the USA used wrong rubber material internals , they dissolve in oil.

internal parts from Ariston and Koni are not interchangeable

my experiance is that Koni's shocks build into The Netherlands has a locknut on top of the piston, while US build Koni shocks use a roll pin.

The rubber bushes from Ariston and Koni are the same.

Simon

You should remove the aluminum shock spacers while at it, those were US only mandated to get the headlight height to meet legal US minimum.

@simon posted:

For me it looks necessery to replace the rubber bushes, those also has impact on your ride hight

yes remove the roll pin for renew the absorber.

I never has rebuild the shocks myself , but I know into that the past shock rebuilders from the USA used wrong rubber material internals , they dissolve in oil.

internal parts from Ariston and Koni are not interchangeable

my experiance is that Koni's shocks build into The Netherlands has a locknut on top of the piston, while US build Koni shocks use a roll pin.

The rubber bushes from Ariston and Koni are the same.

Simon

Thank you Simon, shocks are not leaking and now that I know how easy they are to access(I remembered I had a strut removal tool), I’ll do the clean up, paint, look for the bushings, absorber(although they don’t look too bad since they’re covered) and put back together.

@joules posted:

You should remove the aluminum shock spacers while at it, those were US only mandated to get the headlight height to meet legal US minimum.

Hey Joules, so what is the advantage of removing those spacers?

The car will sit about an inch lower.

The US Panteras sit too high (aesthetically) with the spacers installed.

Rocky

@rocky posted:

The car will sit about an inch lower.

The US Panteras sit too high (aesthetically) with the spacers installed.

Rocky

I emailed Roland.. Maybe we should make a combined order

Here is his response:

Translation:

Hello

If the OD of the bushings is 30 mm I should have new ones.

dimensions 33x34 / 44x12

(I assume the first dimensions are the bushing dimensions into the shock and the second dimension is the outside dimension and the hole)

8 bushings cost €250 including shipping

Sounds expensive.. I will do some digging..

It is interesting to know that Roland is not completely retired from business.

Years ago I buy them from Hall Pantera,  that time they are $30 each , but now out of stock.

That time good Pantera's are 50-60k , now asking 100-120k  .

Simon

@simon posted:

Years ago I buy them from Hall Pantera,  that time they are $30 each , but now out of stock.

That time good Pantera's are 50-60k , now asking 100-120k  .

Simon

30$ per set? Or 30$ x 8

$30. each ,

  So not that much more now !  Wow!

Has anyone used neoprene?

dont go for neoprene , rubber is the best solution for a smooth drive and with less noice and rattling on public roads.

on a racetrack is another case

Simon

Actually, pretty much the same… shipping included…

I am going to order a set.

Okay, I’ll let you know by end of day.  Aren’t they pretty much the same dimensions as the control arm bushings?

@with regards posted:

Okay, I’ll let you know by end of day.  Aren’t they pretty much the same dimensions as the control arm bushings?

the same dimensions but different design .

You can machine substitute bushings for the Ariston shock out Delrin rod.

For what it's worth, many Panteras are driving on modern, lightweight, ride height adjustable, adjustable dampening, and narrow body shocks such as QA1.

If you are trying to keep the car ultra original then the Aristons are perfect.  Otherwise a modern shock may be a good choice.

Good to know Steve, thanks!  Want to get it running first, see how things feel and then start tweaking.. Talking with Mike Mayberry earlier and he recommended not to go with neoprene on the A arms because of squeaks, but that the shocks shouldn't be a problem.  The car came with 16 new neoprenes for the A arms.  Was thinking of using those for the shocks.