You are wise Boss Wrench.
If you’re replacing your tie rods with Heim joints, make sure they’re Teflon lined and buy high quality, high strength items. I recommend Aurora. This is one place where you don’t want to go cheap!
We're talking about something similar to this, correct?
https://allstarperformance.com...ge?q=ball+joint+stud
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https://www.speedwaymotors.com...ud-to-Heim,3333.html
-OR-
Its a 7 degree taper, known as 'Ford Taper. Sold by Speedway Motors and others for dirt track racing, Ford (and Chrysler) ball joints are also 7 degree taper. I made mine from old ball joints and a lathe:straight stud on one end, tapered stud on the other so the steering arm need not be drilled out.
Mr Paschetto, that Speedway stud is it exactly. I see the price has doubled since I added them 10 yrs ago. To level the steering rods for bump-steer adjustment, once you have the studs, one only needs spacer-washers and a carpenters level.
Yes- the heims are female thread and screw on by hand, with a jam nut. They retain stock toe-in adjustment capability. I add heim-joint seals for some weather protection. They're pairs of conical neoprene washers that cover the ball on both sides. Not as elaborate as the full rubber jackets like on Mangusta suspension, but adequate. I think I got mine from Pegasus Auto Racing in Wisconsin. They specialize in formula car parts.
Thanks but not so much wise as poor and trained as an engineer. My whole reason for all the suspension mods was to make the car safer for my wife to drive anywhere, any time.
Boss, do you approve of the CJ pony parts kit? I like it cause it's here in my neck of the woods and available.
haven't ever used them- sorry
@Donny Dotson posted:Boss, do you approve of the CJ pony parts kit? I like it cause it's here in my neck of the woods and available.
He is not particularly known for selling the highest quality parts. I looked at the kit. He is not spec'ing things like 4130 chrome molly on the stud or the rating of the rod ends.
It looks to me the CJ pony stud doesn't have much adjust ability because of the shoulder. It seems you would need to pull it up as far as possible to get the rack level. Has anybody used a or does any vendor offer a stud and heim kit?
The CJ Pony Parts stud is the best design of the three mentioned. With the other two, if you adjust the Heim joint away from the steering arm, the Heim will be in direct contact with a threaded portion of the stud. The CJ stud uses spacers to move the Heim further up the stud, so it’s never in contact with threads. If you want the Heim to be in its lowest position, the spacer sits above it. Unfortunately, the Heim joint and adapter appear to be too long for a Pantera application.
I'm such a retard , I've been under this car and looked at the ball joint 7000 times and had it pictured in my mind that the TR end was below the control arm. Part numbers or a vendor would be appreciated, I need to go ream on this car ASAP before they outlaw gasoline and the world ends.
You can get spacers separately. There are no premade kits that will fit the Pantera. You need to get two 1/2"-20 female premium chrome molly rod ends with 5/8" bore and an assortment of chrome molly spacers.
All of the "kits" are using male rod ends and threaded tubing. That makes the assembly too long to use in the Pantera.
So, use the speedway studs and source the heims from Pegasus or Aroura? I have no experience with heim joints.
First call Maximum Motorsports and see if you can buy their Mustang kit without the Heims and adapters.
Donny, Have you checked by measurement to see if your car has excessive bump steer? I’m not far enough along on my car to check yet but I know from experience designing suspensions that steering arms being parallel to the ground doesn’t automatically equate to no bump steer. Maybe it does for P-cars at a specific ride height. It’s fairly easy to check and should be checked anyway.
@racecarmike posted:Donny, Have you checked by measurement to see if your car has excessive bump steer? I’m not far enough along on my car to check yet but I know from experience designing suspensions that steering arms being parallel to the ground doesn’t automatically equate to no bump steer. Maybe it does for P-cars at a specific ride height. It’s fairly easy to check and should be checked anyway.
The question has been asked before, "what is excessive bump steer"? We are looking for a number, not a description of what it is. Zero would be perfect but probably not possible, so what is an acceptable number?
I've looked as much as I can and there is no one that I know of that is quoting an actual number. They just speak in generalities.
IF someone is going to all of this work, and measuring bump steer is labor intensive, don't do it before shocks and springs, do it after.
There are a few race shops that deal in suspension components. Pegasus is just one of them and a good source, but Davids concern of using an adjusting nut instead of solid spacers is credible, but you can get the spacers separately also so you can use the Speedway studs, just plan on spacers as well.
I might suggest also that if you are going to go to this extent then get the sphere ball anti-sway bar ends and do them at the same time.
Mike is correct when he said that this is a lot of effort to go to, without really knowing if you have a bump steer issue. You should start off with the rack spacers, then go from there.
Also, my issue with the Speedway stud has nothing to do with spacers vs nuts to locate the rod end. If you do indeed need to move the rod end higher on the stud, do you really want it acting on a threaded portion? Eventually, the threads will be crushed and the result will be slop in the steering.
As an aside, years ago, Gary Walker (Comp2) told me the Pantera’s steering rack is too long to ever have zero bump steer.
@davidnunn posted:Mike is correct when he said that this is a lot of effort to go to, without really knowing if you have a bump steer issue. You should start off with the rack spacers, then go from there.
Also, my issue with the Speedway stud has nothing to do with spacers vs nuts to locate the rod end. If you do indeed need to move the rod end higher on the stud, do you really want it acting on a threaded portion? Eventually, the threads will be crushed and the result will be slop in the steering.
As an aside, years ago, Gary Walker (Comp2) told me the Pantera’s steering rack is too long to ever have zero bump steer.
I have no argument with anyone here. Maybe we can persuade Bosswrench to post some pictures or details of the stud that works best?
I can't say that the rod end is going to need to be raised to the threaded portion of the stud so only someone who has actually done this could answer this.
I'm sure that more then one person has but I only have the Boss to ask for that information.
Measuring the toe in/toe out changes during suspension changes in the front is also cumbersome to say the least AND changing spring and shock rates may make the changes at maximum travel up/down almost irrelevant?
David. If the rod end needs to possibly be shimmed up with spacers, how can it be kept off of the threads? That isn't possible without a specifically machined stud, but that would remove the possibility of adjustment, up or down?
I'll see what I can do, when the snow melts. Maybe revisit those old articles in the Newsletter. The biggest source of funny steering problems seem to occur when you change the front ride height- even removing the front coil-over spring spacers will do it. The rack moves up/down with the body relative to the ground while the rod ends are fixed in height off the ground by the wheel and tire sizes.
Rack spacers do two things because that surface they bolt to on the front of the trunk floor is at about a 45 degree angle. So rack-spacers on a front-steer Pantera move the rack forward which changes bump-steer and Ackermann-toe, while they also move the rack down, which also modifies bump-steer. Hard to keep all this stuff straight in one's mind unless your name is Dallara.... And of course, street guys may not even notice.
Changing shocks has morphed into a major suspension geometry project!!
Interesting discussion!