roll bars for sale. old new sock !

the price :

2500 € each + postal charges ( 20 kg each )

contact : c.mwa.mem@gmail.com

PS. 20 kg includes the packaging.

What do these things look like out of the wrappers?

Metal roll bars color mat black.
if you are really interested i can unwrap a few places by cutting them open ( and take photos) so you can see what you need and the original wrapping can stay put.

I was just curious. They would be way too expensive for me.

Hi Sam.

Thanks for the Price info, to expensive for me also. you can bay brand new at www.rallyshop.it
Price 528.Euro.

Kjeld.

you speak about this ?
everything seems always so perfect on the internet, right ?

1.there were no Panteras in 1969. the first protoype was in 1970 and they were first to buy in 1971.

2. there were 3 series of Pantera, and if you want to try to put the roll bar from a serie 2 in a serie 3 you better have a good saw and lot of knowledge.

3. the roll bars i have for sale are genuine Pantera Gr. 4 1972 model from the factory and the price i ask for them is the price i paid 10 years ago to Mr. Fischer ( general importer at De Tomaso). i don't even try to make money of it.

i'm aware that this offer is more for purists, but even if you're not, you can show a little bit respect for genuine .

Sam

in that i agree ! one sees so many "claimed" PLUG&PLAY items on the net ..untill you recieve it at home and the puzzel starts.....

i agree your factory originals are way out of comparison with some modern Italian steel tubes... that fit everything

i suppose yours won't fit my GT5S ?

you could but with 2 principal modifications :
your serie 3 has 3 or 4 cm more from the top to the swell than a serie 2. so you would have to weld metal parts on your swells because the feet from my roll bars would be to short otherwise ( omg ! is it difficult to explain in english ! )
And because the engine compartment of your 5S has a square form ( the serie 2 has a rounded form) they would be some modifications to make too .
it is feasible, some did, but... sawing and welding on genuine ... i don't know...

do you have a drawing ( or hand made scetch ) of what they look like in structure of a complete set ?

i know someone who did it. i ask him to mail me some photos.

quote:

Originally posted by sam sara:
i know someone who did it. i ask him to mail me some photos.

even better !

quote:

Originally posted by Belgiumbarry:

quote:

Originally posted by sam sara:
i know someone who did it. i ask him to mail me some photos.

even better !

everything on PM

quote:

Originally posted by sam sara:

quote:

Originally posted by Belgiumbarry:

quote:

Originally posted by sam sara:
i know someone who did it. i ask him to mail me some photos.

even better !

everything on PM

thanks for the pics... but, why not showing them here on the forum...

if someone else is interested in this very specific point, why not ?

THANKS for posting installed pics

+1 on the thank you on posting.

I am wondering in looking at these pictures if there was a specially drilled glass window with rubber grommets that was offered with the roll cage?

That's what has keep me from running the rear support bars that go through the window. Sanction bodies back then didn't like the plastic window on a firewall either.

My glazier regularly drills glass now. 40 years ago, that was a different story.

As far as the cost goes, and I am not criticizing that at all, everyone must realize there was only one source where you could get the cage from and you knew it would fit.

This is the full factory racing cage and for me at most I would be using just the back half of it.

One additional feature that I like is the diagonal brace the main hoop has that the current bars do not have.

Thanks again for posting.

you could really order anything from the factory. great times !
but the Pantera was (and still has to be for some )full of plexiglass because it's a race car ( weight and safety). Plastic is genuine !
using the half back only from a full racing cage is a classic, the front steals a bit place but, for my taste, it looks just ...wow !
same for tyres ... just 15" slicks and rrrooooaaarrr !!!
but today a lot of Pantera's owners don't want or cannot participate at races so they try more to associate genuine with elegance ( glass windows , diagonal brace on main hoop ...aso... )
here in France we have real freedom with those old racing cars : just need the "genuine paper" that certifies what's in or on your car is original ...
meaning : if you drive a moped with no strong normed helmet you're good for a hudge ticket ! but you can drive an old topless Delahaye with a leather helmet or a scarf wraped around your head and it's all good !
How does that go in the US ?

i think using the front part is only safe with a helmet...

only if you mean to make an accident ... and then it would be the same safety (i don't know if you really realize how fragile a car is !) than in any car...
and if you're afraid to bump your head by only driving the car ... pretty unlikely except if you're over 6'3 and a little bit clumsy or distracted.

quote:

Originally posted by sam sara:
you could really order anything from the factory. great times !
but the Pantera was (and still has to be for some )full of plexiglass because it's a race car ( weight and safety). Plastic is genuine !
using the half back only from a full racing cage is a classic, the front steals a bit place but, for my taste, it looks just ...wow !
same for tyres ... just 15" slicks and rrrooooaaarrr !!!
but today a lot of Pantera's owners don't want or cannot participate at races so they try more to associate genuine with elegance ( glass windows , diagonal brace on main hoop ...aso... )
here in France we have real freedom with those old racing cars : just need the "genuine paper" that certifies what's in or on your car is original ...
meaning : if you drive a moped with no strong normed helmet you're good for a hudge ticket ! but you can drive an old topless Delahaye with a leather helmet or a scarf wraped around your head and it's all good !
How does that go in the US ?

No, there are no places in the US to use a leather helmet and a scarf. You need to have a current Snell number helmet to race or even be on a track these days.

There was one fatality in one of the
Silver State Classics in a Pantera without a roll bar.

That seems to be the most critical in these cars, i.e., to keep the roof from coming in on you. The other is to keep the fuel tank from leaking out it's contents while the car is upside down on its roof.

You are absolutely correct about the cabin in the car being too tight for a full roll cage unless you are built like a jockey. Personally, I am not.

The full race cages that I have seen built into Panteras dwarf the factory units by comparison. They build a forward horizontal bar under the dash and windshield and tie that bar into the side bars.

Frankly even if you go that far, you might as well do away with the monocoq and go to a full tube chassis with a flip up nose and rear, ala GT40?

I would think that these factory cages would be the most valuable to someone with a real factory GT4. Other wise anyone with a tubing bender can make one up these days?

Halls cage is pretty much a copy of that one.

Incidentally, look at a genuine GT40. There aren't even roll bars in those cars.

There is also some question as to whether a plexiglass window will be allowed on a firewall by any of the race sanctioning bodies.

Maybe someone else who has gone through that can already chime in on that subject?

I believe that each division of the SCCA (sports car club of America) serializes the roll bar/roll cage in each car and that stays with the documentation/history of each vehicle.

It is one of the ways to determine if a particular car is a "legitimate" vintage race vehicle and why you can't just whip one up out of a street car and make it eligible for vintage racing?

quote:

only if you mean to make an accident

How do you choose the time for that unless you are suicidal? I´m in a process of building my Pantera, and I´m also adding a roll bar or roll cage, or whatever I should call it. I´m leaving out the front part because I love my head and my brains. I do think it is a real concern to think about when adding a roll cage into a street car.

quote:

There is also some question as to whether a plexiglass window will be allowed on a firewall by any of the race sanctioning bodies. Maybe someone else who has gone through that can already chime in on that subject?

As someone said, it depends on the particular sanctioning body(s) and their Tech requirements. Read the CURRENT Rule Book for your desired tracks before making such mods. They are very clear about most things, but requirements do change from year to year & track to track. Tech specs are not debate-able.

When a Pantera showed up all the way from Sweden at Bonneville a few years ago, the car's plastic rear window was rejected. They had to go to Wendover, NV and buy galvanized sheet metal to replace the plastic rear window, before Tech Inspection would approve their run. Seems Tech regards the rear window as part of the rear firewall, in spite of the fact that a stock glass rear window is about the first thing to break in an engine fire.

Regardless, plastic or fiberglas does not qualify as a firewall at Bonneville and it's not even wheel to wheel competition.

quote:

Originally posted by kimmosch:

quote:

only if you mean to make an accident

How do you choose the time for that unless you are suicidal? I´m in a process of building my Pantera, and I´m also adding a roll bar or roll cage, or whatever I should call it. I´m leaving out the front part because I love my head and my brains. I do think it is a real concern to think about when adding a roll cage into a street car.

i saw and was in enough accidents ( that those didn't ever happen never because of me not changed anything !) to know what i'm talking about. Through a little of humor i hinted on these people who overthink safety but buy and drive a muscle car, go from street to tracks on little events, having in reality no clue about driving a muscle car because they think ( somewhere in their effective precious brain- wan't denie that !) it's finaly not so far from a city car or that they are going to drive safely and everything's gonna be just fine.
Choosing a Pantera is a love story.
"Just" and only a love story.
Risky and time and money taking it is.
But everything in life is risky and when bad happens it just happens .
In over 30 years of muscle car love, i never saw or heard a lost of head or brain by front part of roll cage ( but here we don't do stockcar races).
By fallig in stairs, three times (lot more if you look for other body parts hurting) !
And talking about hurting, the last thing i want is to hurt your feelings, but, look, i'm old enough to say that : there's no place safe in life, never, but it's worth it.
with or without roll bars
good luck for your Pantera project

Thank you for also remembering my feelings. I haven´t been able to stop crying since yesterday but maybe I now can. I´ll now head downstairs and continue taking some risks with metal work machinery and those sharp edges of sheet metal.

quote:

Originally posted by kimmosch:
Thank you for also remembering my feelings. I haven´t been able to stop crying since yesterday but maybe I now can. I´ll now head downstairs and continue taking some risks with metal work machinery and those sharp edges of sheet metal.

uuhhhh ... ???

my english is so terribly rusty and simple but i think i just became a big wind of testoterone mood swing in my face.
almost creepy

quote:

Originally posted by Bosswrench:

quote:

There is also some question as to whether a plexiglass window will be allowed on a firewall by any of the race sanctioning bodies. Maybe someone else who has gone through that can already chime in on that subject?

As someone said, it depends on the particular sanctioning body(s) and their Tech requirements. Read the CURRENT Rule Book for your desired tracks before making such mods. They are very clear about most things, but requirements do change from year to year & track to track. Tech specs are not debate-able.

When a Pantera showed up all the way from Sweden at Bonneville a few years ago, the car's plastic rear window was rejected. They had to go to Wendover, NV and buy galvanized sheet metal to replace the plastic rear window, before Tech Inspection would approve their run. Seems Tech regards the rear window as part of the rear firewall, in spite of the fact that a stock glass rear window is about the first thing to break in an engine fire.

Regardless, plastic or fiberglas does not qualify as a firewall at Bonneville and it's not even wheel to wheel competition.

thanks.
very strong rules !
with this "current rule book" that changes all the time you'll practically have to adapt your car for each track ? that must be quite a puzzlement !!

quote:

Tech specs are not debate-able.

we have some like this in France ( US export maybe ?? ) : they are called cops !

The track rules are reasonably standardized in the US. I think what Bosswrench is referring to is on cars that really don't fit the profile easily there are decisions that the Tech Team needs to make. That could vary some from track to track. The window in the Pantera is one of those points that creates a problem that a Mustang doesn't.

A fiberglass panel over the nose of the engine hardly serves as a firewall either.

I think though that it depends on what you want to do with your car. If you want to race it you need to decide under what rules or category (maybe is a better word).

If you just want to run open track events with various car clubs then the vintage GP4 roll cage would be a good compromise to give you some added protection.



You would be better off running in one of the Vintage classes but it is difficult to turn a street car into a vintage racer if the car has no former race car log book.

You could attempt to race the car in one of the current GT classes but why? You would be racing against very high tech, high dollar race teams with an antique?

Even in the vintage classes you are probably going to spend a couple of hundred thousand a year on the car to campaign it. Engines alone for something like a 289 that is competitive costs in the $30,000 range and you can't run the season on just one engine.

ok.
thanks
we live in such a little country here and don't have lot of other possibilities with vintage cars than open track races with car clubs ( wich can be pretty big events though on famous F1 tracks !).
but than, like i said, your car just needs to be stamped "genuine" and... not too loud ( loudness control in Assen - Neederland f.e. catastrophic for Panteras !).

thanks again for the info, it's very interesting.

PS. about the Ford GT 40, you're right ( i had the chance to "put my bottom" (french expression ) in numerous great cars ) but hey, i knew the owner of one and... he was 6'5 no kidding ! it was hilarious only to watch him go in or out of his car ! not to mention the "driving style" he had to adopt once on the track with the steering wheel between his knees wich were somewhere near his ears !! but, despite of that he was a really good racer .)

Yes, as you say having it declared "genuine" is the issue. Basically it needs to have been raced back when it was new and have been documented by the Tech Inspectors back then.

Here they usually do that by putting a serial number on the roll bar or roll cage.

I'm sure there are ways to get around that but since I have not done that, I don't know what the procedure is.

This makes genuine race cars much more valuable. Even if they were just very mundane cars like Mustang coupes. Some of those sell for 300 or 400 thousand dollars or more.

Gp4 Panteras are rarer here in the US.

quote:

I'm sure there are ways to get around that but since I have not done that, I don't know what the procedure is.

This makes genuine race cars much more valuable. Even if they were just very mundane cars like Mustang coupes. Some of those sell for 300 or 400 thousand dollars or more.

Gp4 Panteras are rarer here in the US.

like i said, you could order anything from the factory back then...

and then there are people who really cheat : i know a man ( i don'y like him, he's bad news) in south of France, he owns a so called Gr 4 Pantera he claims to be genuine . Even wrote its story in a popular book about the story of De Tomaso. But in fact it was first built as a GTS, then modified a few years later (in the factory, but still !) into a Gr3 ( i have the pictures !) and only later in the Gr4 it is now. That's for me the subtile line vintage car owners should not cross.
Same for mundane cars wich prices go to the roof just because of the same bureucratic BS that makes the life of real rare genuine race cars owners so difficult.

REAL race cars don't exist any more... they were crashed with honor searching the limits ! what remains are the crowd...

Before the death in a Pantera at Silver State becomes legend as submitted in PanteraDoug's post earlier, I do not believe that this has actually occurred. In a Mexican Road Race, a racer driving a Pantera left the road and died. He went off a cliff.

The story came from Bev Hall around 1992. I was buying my roll bar from them at the time and she started crying about if "their friend" had "any kind of a roll bar in the car, he would still be alive".

Don't know him, when or where it happened. It was right around the time AFTER the Silver State was run, and they were talking about "Mad Dog"'s car as well. I didn't ask a lot of questions. Seemed to be in bad taste to do so?

Legends can be good. It makes Dennis's car faster than it ever was...and it is fast to begin with...and he is "crazy" if you ask me (and he likes that reputation)...but that's all part of the "legend"?