SHEETMETAL PANEL WANTED

Can you make a pic for me of it ...do you have both sides. I fabricated the other side and well here it is look OK but when I started to weld the top it was also rusted from behind and kept burning thru.

Look.

What you need is a "partial rear upright". They are still in Hall's catalog.

ok, whats wrong with it, not chromed or stainless steel?

If it was chromed or stainless it would be harder than hell to weld back on. This is something I plan for my car one day but those little sheet metal dealies are over six hundred bucks a piece. SO I gotta save my nickles and dimes for now.

The Hall one appears to be a fabricated piece that is not really the replacement is what Roland and I are questioning. I could make the Hall piece as I did for the lower in the pic I posted. We question if its worth it to buy Halls or fab my own. I will try PI first and see maybe they have a old one cut off a car or something. Then the last resort is many hours of fabing.

From what I have read, this is the absolute worst place on a Pantera for rust. If there is ANY rust on a car it will start exactly right where we are talking about.

I don't know if you are addressing me Mr. Roland, but to me, the six hundred a piece doesn't seem too outrageous, because it save s a lot of time trying to form it out of a flat piece. IT would take forver to get it right and as long as you have something close, you can pound and form it. Starting with a flat sheet of metal would be a nightmare, IMO.
Of course I haven't done this kind of work in over thirty years, so don't go by what I say. These guys posting here are way more skilled than me.

You mean you are looking for the entire inner panel? Ohhhhhhh. I'm sorry that was presumptuous of me.
I do remeber when Ford announced the end of the Pantera "program", 73-74 "ish".
They promised that they would provide all parts for the car for five years.
There was controversy at that point because the "inner fender panels", I believe is what they called them, were not available.
Rust had already caused problems in them at that point.
Ford followed up soon after announcing that they were again available. There was alot of unhappiness because they were listed at $2500 each side. I remember that very vividly.
If you look at the post Ford era Panteras, that area of the car has been "revised". I think it is now boxed out with squre steel tube 2 x 3 or so.
I repaired mine before the Hall partials were available. I used a process that is called hammer welding. That's a term that originates in the 20's or 30's.
It isn't easy to do. Had the partials been available, they would have saved a tremendous amount of time. I think they are cheap at $250 each considering the amount of time I spent on them.
I don't see how you can get the inner fender in all in one piece without cutting up the car.
The inner sheet skin and the skeleton in the wheel well are all one piece. They are spot welded together.
That panel has to be done when the chassis is being assembled, before the rear fenders are attached.
Of course if you could find one you could cut it up into a partial, but why bother. Buy a partial. Any work that you do in that area will show.
I think that any US Pantera that hasn't been repaired there, needs to be repaired there. They all need it. It's only made up of 18 or 20 gauge sheet steel. It is a monocock (I know it's spelled wrong, but that's how you say it) stressed steel sheet panels.
Maybe more then any other area on the car this is where the rust reputation stems from?

Doug I think the piece you get is a partial and they are like six hundred a piece. You have to cut out the old rusty after you have marked where the new one will butt in. Then you gring it all smooth and clean, then tack it in place and weld it up. Then you grind it all smooth again, touch up any pin holes, maybe redo and area. grind it again. then hit it with paint inside nad out. That is what was wrong with the original, it wasn't painted on the other side, just the side facing out. Then you drill your drain holes and put another coat on. Then you gotta put the suspension all back on and all that. It is still a big job. A huge job. BUt well worth it for peice of mind if nothing else.
This is why I think it was a good idea that guy offering to make the car out of carbon fiber. THat stuff doesn't rust. It woulda been real expensive though I bet. But then, your Pantera would be immortal. At least until you hit something or it caught on fire, or.....

Yes DT, I know how the partial goes in. It wasn't available yet when I did mine.
What I'm saying is that you virtually have to do a partial, so why fight it?
Yes to say it is quite a bit of work is an understatement.
Incidentally if you are lucky, you can flange the sheet instead of butt it. Then you can usually hide the seam. That's on the engine side. The suspension side needs to be butt welded.
I would have no problem seeing a repair there if it is done well. The repair on a Pantera is inevitable...a Pantera fact of life.

Ok here it is 3 hours tonight and I was rushing... not my best work but it will do.

Ron

It looks fine, as good as the original metal work is. Don't forget to leave weep holes in the "tubes".

the engine side.... not as pretty as I would like but I can still grind it and smothen it and it will be fine...ok now the other side.

Ron

I seen the holes ?? what were they for.. I was thinking of sending some red oxide primer in there.

Ron

I used galvanized sheet metal when I did it. I did not grind down the welds. I didn't want to weaken them or shave the metal thinner. Actually I would recommend shooting rustproofing in there. You know, the waxy cosmolene type of stuff.

Ron the holes are for water to drain out if any gets in by accident or condensation.

I absolutly love that kind of work. If I was closer I would come over and help!

(doesn't mean I am good at it, just like doing it!)

Gary

Thanks Gary,

I have one of my Pipefitter Apprentices temporarily on Pantera duty, he is the wire wheel man. We are cleaning suspension parts in the shop in between jobs and the underside on the weekend. Need lower control arms they were bent during the shipping from Calif to NY. The original body shop will replace them, you can bet on that. I go to deal with this issue tomorrow. He didnt perform as the insurnace co paid him.

Ron
Repairs are coming along good, you sure got that frame clean. Thats alot of work by itself!

quote:

Originally posted by accobra:
Need lower control arms they were bent during the shipping from Calif to NY.

There are a few motocross courses 'tween here and 'thar ya' know?

Damn, that's the absolute worst place for rust on a Pantera. Expect it to be bad elsewhere on your car.

Sorry to see and hear that. Good luck.

Actually that is it for te rust ... someone else replaced a rocker panel and there was a couple small spots on the bottom of the doors. Other wise the car is not bad. I'm actually a step toward converting it to a GT4 style body .. since I ordered steel flairs. So thats the next project when they arrive.

SO this is what the other side repair ended up looking like. I'm happy ... a little heavy duty but ?

Ron,

That looks great, your sheet metalwork is something to be proud of, almost a shame to have to put paint on it...buff it out a bit more and add some clear coat

Did the GT4 flares arrive yet? I'm interested to know how you go. I was recently told they are quite difficult to get right as each one is in three parts.

I'm thinking maybe after all to go with the riveted glassfiber first off and then switch over to steel as the funds permit later on. I'm just keen to get my Kodiak wheels mounted now they have arrived and I can't justify the outlay for the steel ones right now.

Julian

Joules ....thanks. Hey I meant to ask you was your car the one from NY .... how did that work out for you if so ?

Ron

Joules,

I cancelled the order ... due to the fact that I picked up another car. Couldnt swing the cost of the larger wheels to match the flairs. I have made flairs from scratch in the past with solid bar stock and sheet metal .. I posted a picture of my old 66 comet I had in allessandros' Bar under "spreading the gospel". I made metal flairs for that car. So 3 piece sounded like a home run to me. You have to have the Wheels first then make sure the car is aligned then mount those flairs. It is a lot of work but looks nice. The black car on the cover of PI winter magazine is gorgeous and has riveted flairs so either way both works out fine.

Ron

quote:

Originally posted by accobra:
SO this is what the other side repair ended up looking like. I'm happy ... a little heavy duty but ?

Don't forget to drill drain holes at the bottom of the new braces shown in the picture.

Jeff
6559

Ron,

Yes, my car was the Green one from NY that Gullwing had. It worked out real well...considering I bought it on spec unseen. It could have easy gone the other way, I got lucky, its a solid car. Main isues that I think frightened off others were a) dent on the rear of roof panel and b) 2nd gear syncro c) electrical issues and alot of niggly stuff..headlights not raising etc.

a) Drilled, pulled & filled and is now ready for repainting
b) Turned out to be nothing more than linkage issues
c) Mostly done now...I learnt this is part of P car ownership anyway!

Initially I made Gullwing a 'low ball' offer they refused, but the car was still on their lot almost 3 months later, went back in with that same offer and they took it. Looking back and going by the 'projects' recently sold on eBay I had a great deal and timing.

Yeah I looked at Laslo's black flares and they look great even if riveted on, that is what swung me to maybe just go GRP for a while. But thinking more about it I'm gonna still have to weld over all the sidemarker light holes and make good so maybe its better to go steel once and for all.

Julian

Thats great to here it worked out good. I did order a pair of steel flairs and I think they were in Fabrication so who knows.

Good Luck.

I've just done this repair too.
I did mine in 1mm stainless steel.

One rectangular piece to repair the side of the chassis leg (the bit you can't see)

I made the fender repair from three separate pieces. It's very similar to the one accobra has made.

I used stainless steel wire to weld the pieces together and mild steel wire to fix to the car.

No problems MIG welding using an Argon/CO2 mix.

Rapier,

Is it possible to weld SS to Mild Steel ??

I was thinking of fixing my gas tank this way.
Ron

Hi Ron,
I've never done a gas tank this way but I've used stainless many times. Now I won't use anything else for chassis work as I hate doing the same job twice.

I've done:
Rapier Rear suspension front mounts.
Rapier Front lower panel.
Pantera: Same repair that you did.

I use a 180 amp Migatronic MX180 and an argon/CO2 gas mixture.

For stainless to stainless I use stainless wire. This gives a shiny weld. For stainless to mild steel I use mild steel wire but only because it is much cheaper.

Stainless steel wire is at least 5 times the price of mild steel wire.

I find reluctance from people to use stainless but. The only problem I find is that it is stiffer than mild steel so it's harder to cut and to bend. You will need a guillotine or strong arms to cut it.

I tried to get new headlamp panels made in stainless by a company that usually makes them in mild steel. I offered to pay double but they weren't interested.

I don't understand - why not use a material that will not rust?

If it were my gas tank I would use stainless, no question, no doubt, no rust.

Hey Ron,

Just to bring back some bad memories and to show you're not alone.

As usual this started out a simple job to cut out the OEM crossmember to replace it with a removable one and a new Aviaid oil pan. That went really well, just cut through the crossmemner with a sawzall, showed the spot welds the cold chisel and it fell off. Well while I'm down there rolling around on the floor I think I'll drill the drainage holes in the upright stringers....ha, ha no need I already have holes, just a few too many. Fortunately for me the other side appears really solid.

I don't be needing this right now, Vegas is fast approaching. Tomorrow evening's task is panel fabrication then I guesss.

Julian

And this is what was inside there! Enough dirt to plant up some tomatoes , man how'd that stuff creep in there in the first place?

Hey Joules I've got some pictures just like that!
From inside the engine bay I can see into the top of that section, there's a gap where the muck gets in.
I repaired mine with stainless steel and left the bottom of the tube shaped sections open as drains.
Good luck.

Joules,

Just be careful make sure you cut it high enough to get out of the rusted metal. Its rusted from behind or it will be very hard to weld it. here was my final result. I used heavy 1/4 box steel cut at the correct angles then used a vertical piece of flat steel to act a bulk head so you can transition from old on top to new below it. The heavy guage metal makes it easier to weld to old sheet metal becuase you can lay the heat on the new stuff and circle lightly on to the old. Kind of a welding trick with controlling the heat.
Ron

Dear Ron
I think I have the parts your looking for. Nos rear inner wheel houses, I have both LH/RH. the part #'s are 19217A and 19218A from parts catalog. These are not repo parts, I bought them from pantera dealer for a car I was doing but sold the car before could use the parts. Let me know if you still need or want parts? Tim

yes I fixed the old ones but not really happy with the way it looks. Send me a some pics and cost.

Ron

Dear Ron I can only send one picture at a time. I will try this one, but if you can give me your e-mail address I can send more at one time. I dont know if this picture will even show up. Let me know Tim