quote:
Originally posted by Rocky:
quote:
Carroll Smith reported to Ford that the Pantera COULD NOT be made into a race car and everything died except the four Gp4 Panteras.
I've seen this written down (on this forum and elsewhere), but never in anything official - althought I must note, I haven't read any of Carroll Shelby's bio, or most of the DeTomaso books.
How do we know this, and what weaknesses did he identify on the cars?
It would be fascinating to know. I may have already solved the problems (if one of his issues was that it needed powdercoated suspension, and the other was that the rear bumper stuck too far out!
).
Rocky
It was mentioned in someone's article, about something, somewhere, A LONG LONG TIME AGO. 1971 maybe? Maybe one of those footnotes? As I remember BEFORE the GP4 car appeared at the NY Auto Show? I think that was the '72 show?
Maybe that, the Gp4, was Detomaso's answer to Ford? "Can't race it? Really?"
It was similar to what 'you' might read today in a newspaper article such as, "informed sources today said", then no other documentation, etc.
If true, it tends to be irrelevant since Ford determined that after spending, over $3 billion in today's dollars, since 1962 or 63, and their market share had not increased even 1% that was enough of the JUSTIFICATION for pulling out?
My thought was that by this time, 1970 ish, Ford himself had accomplished just about everything he wanted to do.
The one exception was the lingering production of the Pantera which came under the 'production' car division rather than the 'racing division' and likely was Ioccoca's influence about giving Ford some type of an exotic image?
All things considered, the Gp4 cars MIGHT have been more Detomaso's money than Ford's but as I understand it the engines came from Bud Moore's shop. Who paid for them I don't know but Hank the Crank should have known how to make a crank that would not throw the Mallory Metal out of the 'shaft I would think?
As far as the Mangusta goes, it was NEVER Shelby's money. It was Henry Ford's managed by Lee Ioccoca and "they" had looked at the Mangusta and just didn't want to put their name on the car.
I heard that it was the Ford Engineering department that just didn't like the car. You could say that the Mangusta was a go but the car "failed it's physical"?
You've got to remember ALL of what happened was Ford in disguise as Shelby (or others) who were basically the 'front men' and they were allowed to keep the credit.
That certainly is part of the friction between Detomaso and Ford.
The FACT of the matter though is that the Cobras would probably never had happened without Shelby. Cars like the GT40 developed because of his team. The GT40 and the GT350 would never have been "given" to Shelby without the Cobra being successful, etc, etc, etc.
This stuff all gets hocus pocus around this time because first Detomaso owned Ghia. Ghia owned the design of the Mangusta but had no power train for it yet.
At some point Ford purchased controlling interest in Ghia.
In any event you can think of the Pantera as a redesign of the Mangusta and as far as Ford was concerned a successful one because they approved of it.
Maybe the Ford Engineering team was headed up by a fat bald headed cigar smoker who kept hitting his head on the windshield of the Mangusta and dropping the cigar ashes in his own lap? Stupider things have happened?
Whoever approved of the Pantera could not have been very tall and he must have had small feet?
Incidentally, it wasn't named the Mangusta until after Ford rejected it.
Iococca 'recently' was quoted as saying upon Shelby's leaving the office after the first meeting, "we had better give that guy some money before he bites someone in the ass".
No one ever said Lee was without "vision"?
...and not intended to piss everybody off BUT the same deal existed between Ford/Ioccoca and Detomaso.
Ford owned EVERYTHING, paid for EVERYTHING and Detomaso got the credit UNTIL they pulled out, closed down Vignalle, gave DT the 150 cars left on the assembly line and said goodbye.
THEN it was Detomaso's show.
How many Panteras did he make after that? Not many?
I love what they did with the Pantera, the passion and the sweat and blood everyone put into it BUT those are the facts, and nobody was ever going to write it down exactly what transpired internally.
It's a little like the relationship between the US President and the Director of the CIA.
The Director comes to the White House to get his orders verbally directly from the President.
No in between. No documentation. No proof.
I don't know who Carroll Smith reported to? Ray Geddes? I think he was the competition director at the time? Geddes was what made stuff happen for Shelby in LA.
"You need an engine for the Super Snake project? Sure. Try this "lightweight 427".
Pretty sure he only got one but Ford would usually give you either 3 or 5 rather that just 1? Maybe the others went into the first couple of Cobra Comp cars? There weren't many?
Panteras on the assembly line at Vignalle. Notice anything about the workers coveralls?
