So much preload in rear sway bar I can't get the brackets back on.

I have struggled from time to time with securing the sway bars.  It may not help in your case but I have used much longer bolts to help get the bracket in place.  Once it is seated then I replace the long bolts with the regular ones, one at a time.

Also, you can install the long bolts as studs to help line up the bracket.  Then use nuts to pull the bracket down.

In the ideal case, I would suspect we would want our sway bars to be under very low load levels when the car is at ride height?

They should just bolt right up, or is some level of preload desirable?

I’ll have to sit off “Engineer to Win”, by Carroll Smith!

Rocky

PS…. I generally have a bit of a struggle with my sway bar too…

The 'sphere ball' bushings make that job a little easier.

There can be a clearance issue to the spinning half shaft under suspension compression with the taller hardware used to secure them to the A arm.

You will never get them all aligned and bolted up by fighting the sway bar.

Put the brackets on the a arms and bolt them up to the a arms.  Then use a clamp to  pull the  sway bars back into the body of the car with the sway arm bushings in place. Then slide on the metal U brackets and bolt them up to the fixed studs . Then release the clamp.

There is a post on how best to do this with photos- I will find the reference.

Here are a couple of photos to give you an idea. Its pretty simple.

The longer bolts worked for me. I have the larger rear GTS bar in the rear.

Bosswrench once posted that if you use the larger bar you HAVE to use the ball mounts to keep from tearing the bar mounts loose.

That is something I still need to do. I'd like to hear more about needing to "clearance" things in the rear before I do it.

Here's a question on that subject though that I need to ask while everyone here is paying attention.

If I put calipers on my rear bar, it measures .900". That's not one inch and it doesn't translate to metric evenly. This was a bar from Hall.

The ball kits available are 3/4", 7/8" and 1". Do I get a 7/8" and machine the ball out to match? I presume that the balls are Delrin?

If that ball bracket is too high and will make the bar interfere with the axles, can it be milled down for clearance?

It is my understanding that Mark at ISPCO can make custom balls for whatever size your sway bars are, but double check with Mark.  Also, I have seen some ball joint that the bolts are not countersink in the brackets which could cause clearance issues, but the new ones have the bolts countersink which will help on the clearance.

Thanks guys. @Percy, I'll try your tip. I do wonder why there's so much preload - glad it's not just me.
Does anyone make a sway bar or link the mounts on the bottom of the A-arm?
Getting pretty tight to the exhaust now that I've lowered the ride height a bit.

It is very common for the sway bar to “self clearance” itself from repeated exhaust pipe contact

Not really a big deal, IMHO  

Larry

Jmardy It sounds as though you have a series of parts that don't quite fit together on your car. If you're very sure the bar size, ride height and shock length you now have are what you want to live with for awhile, try sphere-ball outer bar mounts. They noticably improve any anti-swaybar's performance. I use sphere-ball ends  on both front & rear bars to eliminate binding. Hall Pantera and Larry Stock's PPC shop each sell different versions. Finally, try flipping the bar 180 degrees. I've had bars that fit one way but not the other.

The bar end diameter is not much of a problem because the 'balls' in the sphere ball mounts can be bored out to match- if not by you, then by a shop nearby. Just make sure the bar is not somehow oval on it's ends. Some bar mfgrs are a little sloppy assuming the ends are going into bushings. The bar ends should barely slip-fit in the ball. so cut no more than 0.002" max clearance.

And if none of those suggestions work, the bar itself can be re-bent. When I made up my lightweight hollow bars from thickwall 4130 steel tubing. (illustrated article in POCA Archives), I used a cheap hydraulic Harbor Freight exhaust pipe bender to create bars from straight stock. Don't depend on published bar angles- you already suspect your car is a little "different".

Jmardy,  If you don't want to make sway bars, I am having (5) sets made of 1" Solid bars.  They took the stock bars and computer scanned them so I can get it match.  They will be done late February.  Let me know if you're interested let me know.

I had a similar problem with my rear bar - all stock pieces.  When I managed to get it installed, I could see the bar was bending between the chassis mounts by the stress it was under.  I made a spacer for each one, about 6mm thick, and put them behind the chassis mounts, thus moving the center section of the bar rearward.  Now fits fine.  Front was not a problem, go figure.

Good stuff. Thanks for the tip @ufo-low, I will try that.
@Lardog, I'll PM you.

Cheers,
-John

Lube the welded on studs well with penetrating oil and let them sit overnight first before you try to remove the nuts. They snap off very easily. DO NOT use an impact wrench on them. They would be goners for sure if you do.

I noticed long ago that in relation to fender opening heights, the chassis seems to be twisted. All in all though, it doesn't seem to effect handling at all.

I never considered the chassis jig being off. Just looking at the sheet metal suspension mountings makes me think that there is quite a bit of flexing in the mounts to begin with anyway you look at it.

You need to unbolt the bar completely then bolt the rear brackets first to the frame. Put the wheels back on then lower the car to the ground  then bolt the end brackets to the lower A-arms.  

* I just looked at your pictures and your uprights aren’t installed. Please hold off until that is done so you can install the wheels and set it on the ground or so you can put jack stands on the lower uprights.  It makes it a lot easier to install when the bar is at the neutral position.

@liv1s, that's what I tried to begin with. No way to bend the bar out far enough to get the bolts in the bracket. Maybe if I had another set of arms with a breaker bar on the end of the sway bar. I had to unbolt the center chassis mounts, bolt both ends to the A-arms then use clamps to push the chassis mounts forward. Still feels wrong to me.

Not trying to make things worse, but the 'bolts' that hold the central section of the rear bar to the car (and which take ALL of the swaybar weight transferred) are light duty grade-5-at-best. They break regularly and are repaired in various ways. And they aren't plain hex-head bolts. They are weld-on bolts. inside the rear crossmember assembly, the "bolt" heads are round and are spot welded at their periphery touching the crossmember.

So do not try brutalizing a poorly fitting bar. Besides breaking in two, the three tiny spot-welds holding each 'bolt', will crack. If you try drilling a hole thru them to thread & use a stud, the heads break loose and cannot be tightened. The best substitute I found so far for broken fasteners was to drill a large hole in the crossmember from the ZF side, knock out the broken or loose head and substitute a one-size larger grade 8 allen bolt, which can be inserted and tightened thru the access hole you just drilled. If you do this, the central holding clamp holes, of course must be made oversized to match. As mentioned, it is FAR better to re-bend the swaybar to fit the car, than to try to pull the bar in place & risk 'bolt' breakage.

All this comes from the chassis distortion that happens when NOT using an adjustable rear bar-brace above the bellhousing. This subframe twist shows up as excess rear tire camber, and a stock upper brace-bar simply cannot resist this. Large, sticky rear tires on a car driven hard (as it should be!) makes the camber gain and frame distortion progressively worse. There are several POCA articles written (in the POCA Archives) on adjustable upper bay-braces, rear camber fixes and using bigger swaybars in the rear. Some owners fix this permanently by seam-welding the entire rear of the car. The gain in stiffness is reportedly pro-race-worthy. Others make a whole new rear crossmember.

I agree 100% with Bosswrench about not forcing a bar to fit. First of all, ideally, there should be NO preload on a sway bar in any direction. Forcing the bar towards the frame will likely cause some binding at the outer joints as well as the central mounts. A bar should be able to move freely. For example: if you disconnect the bar end from one side of the car and at the other side you remove the shock (with spring) the suspension movement should not be affected by the bar (assuming the suspension bushing are fully compliant). If there is any drag or binding then the anti-sway bar system is not working correctly. The bar spring rate curve will be affected and inconsistent. Imagine going in and out of a binding state while moving through the suspension travel. You probable wouldn't notice it to much in a street car except in extreme cases.

Side to side bar preload will affect the spring rates at the wheels (wheel rate) which is undesirable. Maybe it's good for oval track racing? Ideally the side to side preload should be zero'd out with the car on a flat surface and loaded with driver and fluids. It's close to impossible to get it perfect on a street car but close is much better than not close.

Unfortunately the Pantera anti-sway bar system doesn't allow easy adjustment.