Since we are discussing the realm of the weird, let me add this tidbit.
I recently had a new battery in which the positive terminal was broken internally in the battery.
It would cause symtoms very similar to what is happening here. I stumbled upon this by accident, just going through the basics for the umpteen time.
I changed the battery and all was good with the world again...but it has symptoms of a circuit breaker resetting itself after it cools down.
Ha! Never heard that one before. To the earlier question, I had wired in the PD fuse box myself, and PIM found and fixed a couple of my not-so-great connections when they did the headlight motor; so I was at fault there. They said they also fixed and cleaned up all the wiring in the console (some of which was mine, so of which was there before me). I don't know what they wired into the ignition switch though... but sounds like the fans are directly wired into it if they are turning on with the key, right?
I replaced my ampmeter with a voltmeter but could never get it to work; PIM fixed that in the last round of work.
As for headlights, I'm pretty sure mine raise and work regardless of key in the ignition... but now I'm not sure. Will check when I get home.
As originally wired, there is a lot of amperage running through the ignition switch.
You can reduce it to a reasonable level by using the Pantera-Electronics ignition switch controller.
In summary :
- you replaced the fuse panel and you made mistakes
- you replaced the ammeter with a voltmeter which did not work,
- you are not sure of the operation of your headlights or that of the fans
- you don't know what the ignition switch controls and which devices have a relay
- you are ready to replace your alternator without having any certainty that it is the fault
-then it will be the turn of the battery because Panteradoug had a problem with his
- you go looking for a heat protection device that resets itself without even knowing if there is one in your car
- ......
All this shows that you are not an electrician at all and have no training in troubleshooting research. It's not a criticism at all, everyone has their own skills, but in these conditions stop looking without method, in all directions at the same time, taking inspiration only from "mine did the same and it was.... .". Leave your car with a professional, PIM or another, because don't forget that a faulty electrical circuit can not only create breakdowns but also set the car on fire and in the end, if the professional is honest it will cost you less.
Further to what Rene wrote above: this problem arose immediately after you had a bunch of electrical work done by PIM. Do they know what they’re doing? If so, how do you know? Keep in mind, one of their mods was questionable at best (cooling fan always “on”). If they won’t (or can’t) fix the problem, flat deck or trailer the car to Don Byars. There are others but I have first hand experience with Don, so I’m happy to recommend him.
Riley,
It seem the issue started after someone did a repair procedure on your car. Not blaming the repair facility, just stating that makes common sense to start there. Also, you mentioned there are other Pantera owners close to you (met up with them one morning for a drive when your car failed in the parking lot). Maybe have them all over and collectively trouble shoot your car. You never know, someone may know or stubble onto the issue. If nothing else, it makes for a fun time to spend with fellow owners. I know how frustrating these situations are and the lack of confidence you can acquire in your car during these types of unexplainable issues. I would maybe call Sharkey at Pantera of Miami and explain what is going on and see if he has had an experience like yours. If not Sharkey, anyone that works on these cars. Good luck, stay the course, you will find it eventually.
Thanks everybody for all the help/suggestions. I'll let you know when it eventually gets fixed, and what the problem was.
@Mike A posted:Riley,
It seem the issue started after someone did a repair procedure on your car. Not blaming the repair facility, just stating that makes common sense to start there. Also, you mentioned there are other Pantera owners close to you (met up with them one morning for a drive when your car failed in the parking lot). Maybe have them all over and collectively trouble shoot your car. You never know, someone may know or stubble onto the issue. If nothing else, it makes for a fun time to spend with fellow owners. I know how frustrating these situations are and the lack of confidence you can acquire in your car during these types of unexplainable issues. I would maybe call Sharkey at Pantera of Miami and explain what is going on and see if he has had an experience like yours. If not Sharkey, anyone that works on these cars. Good luck, stay the course, you will find it eventually.
As if finding the origin of a breakdown was luck or chance!!!! Why not ask a voodoo wizard for help too?
Finding a breakdown requires knowledge and method, everything else is like playing a lottery, it can work.......
What is the going shop rate for a good voodoo wizard these days? Maybe mobile service where he comes to my garage?
IMO, hourly shop rates are somewhat meaningless. What matters is how much work the technician can accomplish in an hour. That's why taking your Pantera to a shop that specializes in Panteras should make financial sense. You aren't paying for someone to do a bunch of "head scratching" while they figure out the Pantera's peculiarities. Mind you, Pantera shops come and go too. Luckily, the Pantera community is pretty tight, so the bad ones disappear quickly. That being said, make sure you get a few positive referrals before you commit to a big job.
A long time ago, I asked Don Byars how long it takes him to completely disassemble a Pantera that drove into the shop. I don't remember the exact number but I remember being "blown away" by how quickly he could do it. That's what happens when all you do is work on one particular model of car for 40+ years!
If you live in the LA area, you have PI, Wilkinson, and Byers to choose from. Hall no longer works on the P. Lance Nist is an electrical genius but is also no longer working on cars either. If it were me, I would CALL PI and discuss the problem with them and seek their response. It sounds like the car went to them with electrical issues and their work may of disturbed something else (which is where I suggested you start looking at the beginning) not to mention they wired a fan to always run which is NOT correct. If you no longer want to engage PI, then I would go to one of the other two, but both are probably backed up for months but you would need to call each and discuss the problem. The LAST thing I would do is to take it to someone unfamiliar with the P and its unique wiring, unless you have a good referral and a shop that works on exotics. V's performance in Orange does a lot of GT40 builds, etc. They may be willing to get involved. Unless you are very skilled at auto electrical systems, trying to diagnose this further is akin to asking a dentist to pull a tooth over the phone. Shop rates are at least $100 an hour and it sounds like you are into it for a grand plus whatever parts may now be toasted.
Last I heard, Wilkinson just primarily sells parts, I've used Tommy Hodges who's also in SoCal and he's been great but he also told me he doesn't really deal with electrical issues. I also heard Byers was not working on cars anymore because of health issues...
Wilkinson is doing work. I do not know how much but a posted on this forum just had them rebuild a ZF. CALL him.
All Don Byars does is restore and maintain Panteras. That's his business. He doesn't sell parts, although if you're an existing customer, he will. I'm not sure what you mean by "health issues" but you may be thinking of his brother Bob, who passed away a few years ago.
Don was experiencing health issues David. Posts on the FB group site run by Dave Adler a few months ago.
I heard through the grapevine, think it might have been my painter (he is a good friend of Don's) is that he was in a hospice with lymphoma and his apprentice is doing the work now. Maybe just a rumor, I don't know.
@Riley Don Breyers is having some health issues but his new business Partner is Greg. They are doing service work now. I would call Greg and take my Pantera there. They are one of the best. Larry
@Riley posted:So I replaced the fuel filter yesterday, and it was pretty bad. Drove the car for about 20 min to lunch and home, and no issues. Seemed like that was the issue. Then this morning, was supposed to meet our local Pantera group, and the car made it 30 miles no problem, and then while I was just pulling in to park, the car dies. This time I noticed that all the electrical died as well. Started back up, then died... and now no power at all. Luckily was there with a couple other Pantera guys, and they were able to help me push it into a safe parking space while I waited for a tow. After 30 min, the tow arrived and I was able to start it enough to drive it on the tow truck.
After discussing with the guys with me, it seems like it's really electrical. PIM just installed new Fluidyne radiator with their dual fans setup, and we're wondering if it's pulling too much power. My headlight motor burned out the first day I got it back, as well as the electrical connections with my gauges were overheating... which they had never done before. Then PIM fixes those issues, and now this.
I ordered a new coil per all the suggestions here, but we were also talking maybe I need a new 3-wire alternator to handle the much more powerful fans. Thoughts?
I think you should check your ignition switch. Sometimes when they start to fail, it will cause a stalling or shut down issue.
Riley, I have worked with every wire and electrical system in Panteras. Below is a photo of a wiring harness that was out of the car that I restored to factory specifications before reinstalling it. I am away the next two weekends and could come to your place after that and hopefully help you fix it, assuming the problem can be reproduced. Let me know if you still need help after February 12. I could come over before then during the week but you are probably working and there are traffic challenges to get to and from your place.
