Switching from carbs to fuel injection

@jffr posted:

I never considered how my system was going to look when I switched over to fuel injection. It came down to how it would make my car run, which after ten years of driving it I am totally satisfied with how well my car runs with it and the gas mileage is great for a 550 plus horsepower car. I can get 17 to 20 mpg on the highway and I doubt that any carb is going to do that for me. Cold starts are great and major changes in altitude don't matter.

For the most part, in 2023 all EFI systems provide similar performance and benefits.  There are some folks who prefer a throttle body that looks like a carburetor (ie. the Holley Terminator Stealth) so the car looks "original" while others may not be concerned about it at all.  Ultimately the same gains are there, it's just giving the owner what they want.

Dear Jim,

            Just for the record of carb performance, I calculated my fuel mileage over 1711 miles driving to the Reno Rally.  The engine is 484 hp 351C with a Holley Strip Dominator intake, CR 10:1 ported 4V quench heads, and a custom Holley 4150 double pumper.  The run to Reno included many miles of high speed grand touring driving. 

            The calculated miles per gallon was 18.7 mph.  17-19 mpg can be done---perhaps not often and more often with custom carbs, but it can be done.

                     Warmest regards, Chuck Engles

@cengles posted:

Dear Jim,

            Just for the record of carb performance, I calculated my fuel mileage over 1711 miles driving to the Reno Rally.  The engine is 484 hp 351C with a Holley Strip Dominator intake, CR 10:1 ported 4V quench heads, and a custom Holley 4150 double pumper.  The run to Reno included many miles of high speed grand touring driving.

            The calculated miles per gallon was 18.7 mph.  17-19 mpg can be done---perhaps not often and more often with custom carbs, but it can be done.

                     Warmest regards, Chuck Engles

I doubt that my 550 horsepower 390 cubic inch stroker engine would be able to get more than about 15 mpg with a carb. What I do like is that I can go from sea level to 9000 feet above sea level and never worry about how the car will start or run.  For most Pantera owners the switch over to fuel injection will never pay for itself in increased fuel mileage. The aftermarket fuel injection systems have come a very long way from the time that they were first on the market. Some of them were definitely very bad, but those days are long gone.

Dear Jim,

            I do understand and agree with your comments on EFI and carbs.

                       Warmest regards, Chuck Engles

So I finally pulled the trigger and bought the new Holley Sniper 2 EFI system.  It is being installed by my mechanic as we speak.  While in there doing the work, I have asked him to get whatever he can off and let's get them cleaned and powder coated to dress up the engine a little bit.  Headers are being ceramic coated too.  Engine block is being painted red, as it was originally when I bought the car.

On a happy side note, Wilwood brakes were built and delivered by SACC Restorations.  Those are powder coated red and should complement the new gold Group IV wheels I purchased from Italy nicely.

I will post photos as the project advances.

So finally everything has been installed and the car was dyno-tuned last Tuesday.  If you recall, I opted to install the Holley Sniper2 EFI.  While I was at it, I installed a new aluminum radiator (Fluidyne), new fans, and everything new with the Wilwood brakes.  But I digress.  So the first pull on the dyno, with no tuning, produced 227 hp at the wheel and 261 at the engine (this number was computer calculated). 7.5 hours later, with over a dozen dyno pulls and making adjustments between each pull in the form of programing the Sniper2 and fine-tuning the air/fuel ratio, the ignition timing advance, etc., and the final result was 326 hp at the wheel and 385 hp at the engine, with 404 ft lbs of torque.  The maximum torque curve is really wide, from 3,200 rpm to 5,200 rpm, so passing at highway speed is incredibly easy.  Jumping from 80 mph to 125 mph was mind-bending quick.  And off the line, it throws your head back as if a Mike Tyson punch landed on your forehead.  I can't even imagine what some of you folks with over 500 hp and torque experience in your cars when you punch it.  It must be an insane experience.  All in all, I am extremely happy with the end result.

Now, does anyone know of a REPUTABLE transmission shop close to PA that could service my ZF transmission?  I have the tinniest gear oil leak and it is just bugging me out.

Glad to hear that you like the fuel injection system. The aftermarket systems have come a long way from when they first started to become available. A Pantera with over 500 horsepower is fun to drive. It can break even the largest rear tires loose in first gear, so you have to be aware of your surroundings if you do it.

@Fuzz posted:

So finally everything has been installed and the car was dyno-tuned last Tuesday.  If you recall, I opted to install the Holley Sniper2 EFI.  While I was at it, I installed a new aluminum radiator (Fluidyne), new fans, and everything new with the Wilwood brakes.  But I digress.  So the first pull on the dyno, with no tuning, produced 227 hp at the wheel and 261 at the engine (this number was computer calculated). 7.5 hours later, with over a dozen dyno pulls and making adjustments between each pull in the form of programing the Sniper2 and fine-tuning the air/fuel ratio, the ignition timing advance, etc., and the final result was 326 hp at the wheel and 385 hp at the engine, with 404 ft lbs of torque.  The maximum torque curve is really wide, from 3,200 rpm to 5,200 rpm, so passing at highway speed is incredibly easy.  Jumping from 80 mph to 125 mph was mind-bending quick.  And off the line, it throws your head back as if a Mike Tyson punch landed on your forehead.  I can't even imagine what some of you folks with over 500 hp and torque experience in your cars when you punch it.  It must be an insane experience.  All in all, I am extremely happy with the end result.

Now, does anyone know of a REPUTABLE transmission shop close to PA that could service my ZF transmission?  I have the tinniest gear oil leak and it is just bugging me out.

Ron Mccall is in Maryland. He's a ZF expert. PM him on here.

Thank you Doug.  Just sent Ron a message.

linkedin.com/in/ron-ron-mccall-49a7a932

I don't see a Facebook account.

I sent him a PM, but have not heard back as of yet.  Wonder if he is no longer active with the Pantera.

I don't have his phone number but I believe it is listed on the Linked in page? He lives and breaths Panteras. I seriously doubt that he doesn't work on them now?

Don't count on PM's from this web page sending notifications.

Mine do not. Not everyone checks in daily on this site. In fact, very few do.

I give people my email address but for some reason people seem overly cautious in using it?

Ron is actively on many forums including this one.  Private message him on this forum.  

Here is his contact info:  https://pantera.infopop.cc/member/rmccall

OBTW, all ZFs leak.  Get a drip pan at O'Reilly's and save yourself $4k.

Further to what panterapatt just wrote; if you are using synthetic gear lube in your ZF, try conventional, petroleum based lube. That leak just might disappear.
BTW, use 80W-90 GL4.

Thank you David.  I will try that.  In the meantime, Ron got back to me and I am seeing him on May 18th at his place in MD.  He said he would take a look and give me his opinion.  Thank you all.  In the meantime, the drip pan has been placed.  I use Penn Grade 80w-90 GL4 gear oil based on some other posts I had read on this forum.  I believe it is conventional, but I will double check the bottle and make sure it is the correct stuff.

Where exactly is the drip?  From the rear of the case cover coming through the bolt holes?  typical place to seep from.  Penn Grade is a conventional gear oil so you are fine there.

If it is from the rear of the case cover coming through the stud holes, it can be solved by a one piece dome nut and a copper washer on each stud end. Use a bit of gasket sealant on the washer and it will reseal the casing.

I completely cleaned the tranny two days ago and let it sit to see where is the drip, exactly, so hopefully I will find out tonight.

Percy, is it possible to send me a photo of what you are explaining?

I used simple sealing washers on the studs. Problem solved. A drop of thread sealer probably wouldn’t hurt but I didn’t need it. I bought the washers from McMaster-Carr.